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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / TGC App Developers Group

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Matty H
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Posted: 20th Dec 2010 19:41 Edited at: 20th Dec 2010 19:42
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I'm pretty sure PhysX runs on netbooks although I have not tried Dark Physics.

My Appup game using PhysX failed the validation process but it was not PhysX related, it was an issue everyone seems to have using WAR setup.

Even though I never tested my game on a netbook I have validation feedback saying it ran fine, also, someone off the forums here tested it for me on a netbook and it ran.

I was using PhysX 2.8.4(beta) which does not require system software, you just ship the dll's with your app.

The issue I was worried about before 2.8.4 was having to install the system software which I thought might be against appup validation requirements, I posted on the forum and they seemed to think it may be fine as long as you give good customer service, explain what and why they need it etc..

I may have more information soon when I re-submit my app.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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baxslash
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Posted: 20th Dec 2010 22:08
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That's great matty, where can people download the necessary dll's?

Also, does that provide full functionality for the latest version of DarkPhysics do you know?

If you don't know perhaps VanB might be able to get official word on the subject?

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The Slayer
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 00:18
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Quote: "I finally got it working."

Good to hear, baxslash!

Quote: "Turns out I get double the framerate by going fullscreen exclusive rather than fulldesktop. Actually I start in fulldesktop then use "set window off" and hey presto my framerate goes from 15-20 fps to 30-40fps..."

Quote: "Full screen exclusive has always been faster for me. Only problem there is the media issue if you task swap."

Don't know about fullscreen exclusive. I've just set it to window mode, and then use "set window off". And, I don't have those problems with task swapping. I can easily alt-tab between programs, and when I return to my game, everything continues without reloading media.

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
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DVader
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 02:30 Edited at: 21st Dec 2010 02:34
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Yes, if you use window mode it works fine. Full screen exclusive however loses object data etc when you flip screens, and causes a crash. I am fully aware of it because until recently , I used full screen exclusive for everything and suffered with it a lot. there is a way to reload all media if the screen loses focus using IanM's matrix utils, but I haven't fully explored that as yet. I tried using standard Db commands without success, but I think using the focus() command in the matrix utils it should work ok. Just a pain in the uranus is all Far easier to use full desktop mode, that is until you hit the dreaded slowdown area.
I only mention it because baxslash will probably be wanting it to pass validation, and crashing on taskswap is an automatic fail.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
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baxslash
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 09:43
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Quote: "Don't know about fullscreen exclusive. I've just set it to window mode, and then use "set window off". And, I don't have those problems with task swapping. I can easily alt-tab between programs, and when I return to my game, everything continues without reloading media."

Actually that's how I'm doing it. I thought using "set window off" put the game into fullscreen exclusive?

Quote: "crashing on taskswap is an automatic fail"

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll cover it.

Damn, this is exactly why I started this thread! This kind of info is really useful

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Matty H
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Posted: 21st Dec 2010 16:54
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Quote: "That's great matty, where can people download the necessary dll's?

Also, does that provide full functionality for the latest version of DarkPhysics do you know?"


I think Dark Physics may need to be compiled with the 2.8.4 PhysX SDK, meaning they may need to update Dark Physics for DBPro users to benefit. Although 2.8.4 is still in beta so it may not be a prudent move for TGC to update yet.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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DVader
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Posted: 26th Dec 2010 18:14
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Well, no luck yesterday testing it on a netbook again. Tried removing the newer physx drivers I had put on and tried older ones. Still get the same windows fatal error crash as soon as the physics starts in game, it runs the menu fine before that. I will have to put together a downsized version here so you guys can see if you get the same problem. I have already done most the groundwork so shouldn't be too much time to get my new map designs in place of the fps created ones I have been using so far.



Just a vid of the game at the min.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
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Matty H
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Posted: 26th Dec 2010 19:04
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@DVader - I may be able to help, you can email me at matthew.hoban@sky.com
I tried the link to your website but it never worked.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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DVader
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Posted: 27th Dec 2010 16:08
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The link on my sig? That is to a game I play, not to a web site of mine lol. Ah well you probably earned me 4 gold or so, not a lot but every little helps. @ matty, I have sent you a mail.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
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darkvee
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Posted: 7th Jan 2011 02:00
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Hi guys,

Count me in.

This will be nice letting others test your game out, and seeing if it works, and maybe some input how to make your game better

if you want to contact me my windows messager live id is coolsurfer72@hotmail.com

darkvee
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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Jan 2011 09:57 Edited at: 7th Jan 2011 10:06
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Welcome darkvee! I'll add you to the list

I've added my list of games and number of downloads to the first post. If anyone wants to add their games and/or any details please let me know!

As an incentive I am likely to buy your game and give it a review if you post it...

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BillR
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Posted: 7th Jan 2011 10:32
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Hi,

You can add me to the list.
I think I have a game or two I can convert for AppUp.
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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Jan 2011 10:44
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Great @BillR! Added you too

Has anyone else out there any games on AppUp or awaiting validation?

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darkvee
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Posted: 8th Jan 2011 02:35 Edited at: 8th Jan 2011 02:36
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Hi Baxslash, Thanks for adding me.

I emailed you a game to try out for the Appup. I hope you like it.
I put a lot of hard work into it, and love.

The awesome thing about this game is each time you play it it's a new game. So you never get the same game twice.

darkvee
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baxslash
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Posted: 8th Jan 2011 20:27
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Cool, thanks darkvee I'll check my mail now!

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darkvee
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Posted: 9th Jan 2011 01:44
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Awesome! baxslash

Man this group thing is going to be a really big thing!
I wonder how many will join. If anyone needs help with there code I can help by the way.

darkvee
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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Jan 2011 07:20
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darkvee, I played your game.

I only have one critisism, I think it needs a loading screen. It takes a while to load and there is currently just a black screen so it's hard to know if it's running properly.

Other than that it's really good. I think my son will love it. It runs really well on my netbook, no crashes or obvious bugs.

I think it could do well in AppUp if you market it for 4-8 year olds.

I love the music and it has a consistant style throughout which is friendly and simple.

Well done!

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darkvee
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Posted: 9th Jan 2011 15:17 Edited at: 9th Jan 2011 15:20
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Hi baxslash,

Thanks man!

I'm glad you like the concept I was going for. My idea was make it fun, and addictive. So that's what I went for.

That's very good news man i'm glad it run well! I will make a loading screen for the game thanks for you help baxslash.

ya the game will be ages +3, and up to adults because the difficult mode has enough challenge for anyone. If you havn't tried it try medium to nightmare mode i'm sure it will really challenge you.

darkvee
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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Jan 2011 17:56
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Quote: "If you havn't tried it try medium to nightmare mode i'm sure it will really challenge you."

Ooh, I hadn't tried it yet! I'll have another go tonight!

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darkvee
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Posted: 10th Jan 2011 02:20
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Alright Awesome!

darkvee
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baxslash
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Posted: 13th Jan 2011 10:00
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Here's a message from Lee regarding using 'Orca' to get a War Setup msi working. Taken from the AppUp forums:
Quote: "Just for a little 'belated' encouragement, the latest update to Goals uses the War Setup program (which I like primarily because it's simple and the point, and it's also very free). You do need to run it through ORCA though (which is part of the Windows SDK download). I made a special note to myself for each MSI I prepare for validation. If you need more info, just ask (and email me at lee@thegamecreators.com) to let me know you've asked

My steps:

0. Create your MSI installer with War Setup 3

1. In ORCA (Free with Windows SDK), open the MSI and go to the Shortcut section

2. You will find TWO shortcuts, delete the one that does not have DesktopFolder in 'Directory_'

3. Also replace the string in the TARGET field with the 'Feature' that corresponds to the main feature from the 'Feature' section as AppUp will not allow square brackets here

4. Save and test

5. Submit

I agree step 3 is a little long winded. Once you see ORCA and understand what TARGET FIELD, FEATURE and SECTION means, you'll be fine!

Hope this helps.
"


Hope that helps guys!

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The Slayer
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Posted: 13th Jan 2011 12:56
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Quote: "Here's a message from Lee regarding using 'Orca' to get a War Setup msi working."

So, basically it works?

Thanks a lot for the info, baxslash!! Did you try it out yet?

And, also a big thanks for Lee!!

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
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baxslash
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Posted: 13th Jan 2011 13:00
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I haven't personally tested it but I trust the Big Man. Especially if he says they used it for 'Goals'...

Good luck with it @The Slayer, hope it helps you get through validation at last (or at least give you some hope)!!

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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 12:13
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Further to the Orca business Lee has posted a video. Enjoy!


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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 14:23
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Sorry for the triple post but I just had to point out that my game "The Last Stand" is on page 2 of the "Highest Rated" games on AppUp!

Of course, only 11 people have downloaded it and I think only 2 have rated it (including me ) but it's still rated higher than Angry Birds which made $130,000 in the first four days after its release...

I can only assume it's based on:


Not on:


...or something similar which makes my humble little game higher rated than Angry Birds or anything by TGC

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The Slayer
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 14:45
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That's really good info on the Warsetup, baxslash! Thank you for that!

Quote: "Of course, only 11 people have downloaded it and I think only 2 have rated it (including me ) but it's still rated higher than Angry Birds which made $130,000 in the first four days after its release..."

Well, even if it isn't as popular as Angry Birds (yet ), it's still a great achievement.

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
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DVader
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 14:54
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From what I can see Angry birds is a worms rip off, and if you want to go back to it's roots it's based on an old game called Tanks. Worms was very, very popular at the time and sold in the millions. I am not surprised this has done well considering that fact alone. Also it is for the iphone, which I would imagine has a way larger base of buyers more likely to purchase, than netbook owners. That is based on the fact that iphone users will pretty much all use the iphone service provided for pretty much every app they get for it. Netbook users have a lot more options available to them and so the intel app up scheme will never get the same coverage as an iphone app.

Personally, I always found these type of games (angry birds/worms) to get tedious very quickly, but I know people who played worms constantly. I imagine that angry birds is possible to play over 2 phones at once, and so will probably be popular as a bit of light entertainment while out at the pub etc, taking turns shooting your mates. I couldn't really see that happening on a netbook in any eventuality.

I think with app up slow and steady sales will probably be the order of the day. Lets hope your sales pick up a little.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 15:00
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Quote: "From what I can see Angry birds is a worms rip off"

Actually it's more like Tanks and several versions on the theme of catapults being thrown at castles.

Quote: "Also it is for the iphone, which I would imagine has a way larger base of buyers more likely to purchase, than netbook owners."

I should have clarified: $130,000 in it's first four days on sale on AppUp

Angry birds is a one person game to my knowledge. You get points for hitting the pigs with your birds. Here's a video of it in action:


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Van B
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 16:21
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Angry Birds will, if anything, bring more customers to AppUp - as it's the only place to buy it for PC. So thousands of people sign up just to buy Angry Birds, lets hope they check other titles as well, and get into Netbook gaming, and buy my game .

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 16:29
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...and while they're at it they can buy mine too! It MUST be better than Angry Birds if it's higher rated... right?

Just shows it's worth buying and rating your own (and each other's games)!!

What's yours VanB? I might have a few quid left from Christmas...

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Van B
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 17:04 Edited at: 17th Jan 2011 17:04
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Netbuko, a Sudoku game with actual graphics and music .



Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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baxslash
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Posted: 17th Jan 2011 17:10
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Nice! I've seen it, I remember you mentioned it before.

Mind if I add it to the 'list of DBP games' in the first post?

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dark coder
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 12:37
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Do I have to be logged into the store to view my game in the published listing? I can see it(and many more) on the store when logged in, but when logged out, the games category has far fewer entries.

At any rate, my game(Astrodude) should be published now(actually it was last week) that it passed validation. I hope I got into the compo, as I had to resubmit due to a small launching issue on Win XP .

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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 12:44
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Quote: "Do I have to be logged into the store to view my game in the published listing? I can see it(and many more) on the store when logged in, but when logged out, the games category has far fewer entries."

Not sure what you mean? Do you mean the AppUp client? If so I didn't know you could view it without being logged in... not got my netbook with me to check.

Congrats on getting past validation! I'll add your game to the list in the first post.

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dark coder
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 12:53 Edited at: 19th Jan 2011 12:54
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Quote: "Not sure what you mean? Do you mean the AppUp client? If so I didn't know you could view it without being logged in... not got my netbook with me to check."


Yeah, well I guess it doesn't matter. It's just the appup client accounts have a limited amount of times you can bind accounts to them, which I ran out of when testing across all the computers here. Then I figured uninstalling from my main PC would redeem one install, except it didn't, now I can't login on my main PC . I suppose I should contact Intel about that.


Quote: "Congrats on getting past validation! I'll add your game to the list in the first post."


Awesome, thanks.

Also, where did you get this $130k Angry Birds figure from? The store page says they got under 10k downloads, assuming a download means a purchase(which it doesn't?) 10k downloads * $5 * 70% is 35k?

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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Jan 2011 13:04
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Quote: "Yeah, well I guess it doesn't matter. It's just the appup client accounts have a limited amount of times you can bind accounts to them, which I ran out of when testing across all the computers here. Then I figured uninstalling from my main PC would redeem one install, except it didn't, now I can't login on my main PC . I suppose I should contact Intel about that."

OK no probs then.

Quote: "Also, where did you get this $130k Angry Birds figure from? The store page says they got under 10k downloads, assuming a download means a purchase(which it doesn't?) 10k downloads * $5 * 70% is 35k?"

It came from one of the Intel people I deal with, the figures shown on AppUp are notoriously out of date so maybe it's not been updated yet. Or maybe the figure I was quoted was hype... who knows but $49k is still a pretty good indication of possible sales!

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darkvee
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Posted: 20th Jan 2011 17:29 Edited at: 20th Jan 2011 17:31
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Hi guys,

Very nice Van B!

I look at the 2nd most downloads from Anrgy Birds, and it was 118 downloads. I think the games we have made is a diamond in the rock. It's just going to take time before people actally see the great games we have made.

One of the problems is Intel appup hasn't been advertising like they should. I dunno what there waiting for. However since so many people signed up to play Angry Birds i'm hoping we will also get some exposure also.

darkvee
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baxslash
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 09:53
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Has anyone tried any of their games from AppUp on Windows 7 64-bit? I have some feedback regarding one of my free games not working on said OS.

I would have thought that if 64-bit were supported it would be tested during validation? I've posted the question on the AppUp Developer Program forum but I thought I'd ask here too...

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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 14:17
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1121 downloads in total of all my games (free and paid) on AppUp.

That's in about 3-4 months.

Hopefully gives an indication of the number of people trying games out at least.

"The Last Stand is the clear winner from those downloads at nearly 700 on its own.

AppUp gamers like zombies it seems!

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DVader
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 18:22
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Nice one baxslash! That's a lot more than you posted before. Not sure why a game would fail on 64 bit unless possibly if you have put your files in Program Files? For 32 bit apps you would need to put them in Program Files (x86). Just a thought. Probably nothing to do with it, and I am sure you know a lot more than me regarding getting a game up and running on app up.

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 22:50
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Quote: "Not sure why a game would fail on 64 bit unless possibly if you have put your files in Program Files? For 32 bit apps you would need to put them in Program Files (x86). Just a thought. Probably nothing to do with it, and I am sure you know a lot more than me regarding getting a game up and running on app up."

That could be the problem actually! Thanks!

Actually though they only just started validating games for 64-bit and mine hasn't been through yet so my guess is the guy was using a 32-bit client on a 64-bit machine...

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baxslash
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Posted: 10th Feb 2011 16:07
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I just updated the first post with a start of a list of people willing and able to Beta test on Netbooks on the AppUp client.

Currently it's just me and my contact details but anyone else who would like to volunteer just contact me and I'll put your name up too.

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Teh Stone
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 20:42
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what will netbooks handle best, 3d objects in a 2d view or just plain 2d sprites
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Kamakazi
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Hi everyone. I haven't become a part of the AppUp yet...but I thought I would attempt to make a program I'm working on fit the netbook screen size (1024 x 600). The original size was 800x600. The extra width allowed for additional movement and more blocks.

Opps...guess I better show the game. This is my first game's version of attempting to be an AppUp application. I've only started programming in DBP for a few weeks now...so I'm amazed I've got this far.

The game is a 2D-game favoring the designs of early video games. It doesn't have music as I couldn't find any hard-rock style tracks that didn't require purchasing a license. Anyway, here's a screenshot. If anyone has a netbook that this game could be tested on, I'd like to find out how well it works.

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Teh Stone
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 20:17
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screenshot looks good just wondering what you have to do in the game thoo

try to get in touch with @the slayer on this forum hes got some great music in a similar style on his game thats on AppUp
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The Slayer
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 14:14
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Quote: "try to get in touch with @the slayer on this forum hes got some great music in a similar style on his game thats on AppUp "

Did someone call my name and mention the words 'great (metal) music'?
Thanks for the comment, Teh Stone.
Yep, I do all my music (metal, house, trance, atmospheric, etc...) myself.

@Kamakazi
Send me an email, and maybe we can arrange something?

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
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Van B
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 15:02
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I've found that sprites and 3D plains are about the same speed. My last game, I used sprites for everything, and found the ease of them very handy - like changing UV coordinates instead of changing images, that sort of thing.
My current game uses plains, and the zdepth issues are a real headache, but if you can get around that, then it is very nice to have that resolution independance.

Most netbooks have a 1024x600 resolution, but really we should consider the next stage in netbook evolution - 1366x768 for example is what my netbook runs at. So I'm trying to go for 3D plains, with over-resolution graphics. If I was using sprites, then I couldn't do that easily, not like my last game which had a backdrop and front - so the backdrop could be any size, and the front would be pixel perfect.

Really, I think it depends on the game - some games are easier to do in pure 2D with sprites, and some games make sense to do in 3D. If you have scrolling maps then I'd say go for 3D plains - or any type of tiled map would be much easier in 3D.

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Teh Stone
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 16:56
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@the slayer
I believe they did

@van
thanks for clearing that up. I was thinkin of a scrolling map but if it would cost too much in terms of performance then a I would have to have a little rethink and make non scrolling map out of images

would the plains not appear to be a different shape if they are toward the edge of the screen (further away from camera position)
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baxslash
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 09:31
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Quote: "would the plains not appear to be a different shape if they are toward the edge of the screen (further away from camera position) "

Not if you play with the FOV a little. At least not as noticeable.

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Van B
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 09:49
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With plain based games I usually always set the FOV real narrow, and position the camera far away - it's easy enough to work out the exact values with sin and cos.

My current game uses a sorta emulated resolution - as I'm making it for iPhone as well, I decided to emulate the iPhone resolution, so the PC version uses 3D and the iPhone is purely 2D, but the same game logic applies to both.

One thing I have noticed, is that plains seem to be a bit better with rotation, like there are less jaggies when rotating a plain, compared to rotating a sprite.

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