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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / TGC App Developers Group

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Battoad
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 19:25
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Quote: "You want me to build an installer for you in the mean time?
"


It would be nice if you or someone else could have a go to see if it works. I will plough through Orca this w/e, when I can, to see if I can find anything out.

I may have made a mistake or MSIs may need further adjustments. hard to tell when your the only one trying.

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BatVink
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 20:04
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Hi all,

I have a quick question regarding AppUp. If I have a game that's fully functional, but very simple in concept, do you think it's worth using as a first step into AppUp? I could spend another 6 weeks tweaking and fine tuning, or I could just see how it goes.

I suppose the question is, where do you think the acceptable entry point is for V1.0 of a game?

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 22:34 Edited at: 18th Mar 2011 22:35
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Hi Guys,

I heard the cry for help, and came out of the AppGameKit cave I have made some screen shots of the view of Goals Lite from Orca so you can see how my various MSI tables are set up. This MSI was created in War Setup 3 with a few tweaks from the video and a few extra ones to sort out the icon and executable location. Hopefully the attached will help refine your Orca modifications. I don't think the developer is actively working on War Setup 3 so it looks like we're going to become Orca experts! I hope this screen shot helps. For assurance, the Goals Lite app was submitted and accepted in less than two weeks, it is also reportedly the first app in the AppUp store that uses the mOcean in-app advertising component, another source of that most valuable thing we call revenue.



I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.

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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 00:04
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Quote: "I have a quick question regarding AppUp. If I have a game that's fully functional, but very simple in concept, do you think it's worth using as a first step into AppUp? I could spend another 6 weeks tweaking and fine tuning, or I could just see how it goes."

I would say starting simple is the best way for sure!

Quote: "I suppose the question is, where do you think the acceptable entry point is for V1.0 of a game?"

I think if it is a fully functional game then it's at V1.0...

Quote: "I heard the cry for help, and came out of the AppGameKit cave"

Wow, thanks Lee!! Nice to see us northern lads are still keeping us fingers on the pulse

Quote: "it is also reportedly the first app in the AppUp store that uses the mOcean in-app advertising component, another source of that most valuable thing we call revenue."

I've been trying (with diggsey's help) to get the mocean component working directly from DBP. If you have any advice getting it working it would be a MASSIVE boost to free games made by TGC users! The thread on Diggsey's progress (I take no credit really) can be found here:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=182139&b=18

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The Slayer
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 00:37
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Quote: "the mocean component"

Just curious, but what is the mocean component, and what is it used for?

Thanks in advance.

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 01:14
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Quote: "Just curious, but what is the mocean component, and what is it used for?"

It's an advertising plugin which pays revenue for each download of a game using it (on AppUp).

So you can put it into a free game/demo and still make some money.

It's possible to make a LOT more money that way. For example if I had it in my demo of "The Last Stand" which has about 1200 downloads I would have made more money than I have from the 60ish paid downloads...

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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 14:19 Edited at: 19th Mar 2011 14:21
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@DarkByNight, I tested the exe you posted. You must still be using the "set window position" command as although the game runs fulldesktop it is offset on the screen.

Here's a screenshot:


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DarkByNight
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Posted: 20th Mar 2011 12:35
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Opps, yeah.
Here's a hopefully fixed version.

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baxslash
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Posted: 21st Mar 2011 11:02
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I'll test it tonight.

Hopefully I'll have time to play for a while too but I'm desperate to work on my projects as they're hotting up...

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DarkByNight
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Posted: 21st Mar 2011 12:13
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I understand all about being excited about your projects!

I am currently converting Shadowcast 2 to full 2d graphics and I have a million ideas for Shadowcast 2!
But I also have tons of ideas for a mall sim and a lion pack sim and a thai recipe book for my mom and and and.... Ohh my.
How do you control your ideas?
Thank you so much for spending so much time testing for me, it really means a lot to me.
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baxslash
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Posted: 21st Mar 2011 12:48 Edited at: 21st Mar 2011 21:20
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Quote: "How do you control your ideas?"

I don't... they control me

That's why I have so many unfinished WIP's...

I'm concentrating on four main projects at the moment and one sub-project.

Quote: "Thank you so much for spending so much time testing for me, it really means a lot to me."

Sorry I haven't been quicker to get the testing done. Glad you are happy though! That's the very reason I started this group.

EDIT: Not sure what you did there but it's still not quite right. See below;


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DarkByNight
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2011 10:22
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Ohh my frigging god I hate this bloody game now. I'll be happy when I never have to work on it again.
It is badly designed, full of design mistakes and just plain ugly. Thank goodness the sequel is turning out much better.
Try this, if this fails I'm just going to give up.

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baxslash
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2011 11:17
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Quote: "Ohh my frigging god I hate this bloody game now. I'll be happy when I never have to work on it again."

It's only one small problem. Dedicate a little time and I'm sure you'll sort it out. Just don't use the command "set window position" and compile it "fulldesktop".

Quote: "It is badly designed, full of design mistakes and just plain ugly. Thank goodness the sequel is turning out much better.
Try this, if this fails I'm just going to give up."

We can all find fault in our games without trying too hard. Just keep trying and it'll be something to be proud of, trust me.

I'll try it tonight.

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Battoad
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 14:06
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Did anyone try Lee's tweaks to Orca on WarSetup to get their msi working?
I have spent another 5 days trying to get it to work without success.
I had 2 problems before Lee's recent help, 1) the desktop icon image wasn't showing and 2} clicking on the desktop icon didn't point to the exe.
Lee's help above sorted out the icon image problem but I still can't get it to point to the exe.
I am now going round in circles trying anything and everything.
If anyone has succeeded could they post some additional screenshots of the Orca and Warsetup tweaks.
Ideally if Lee could re-do "My Cool Game" from start to a working finish, then that should help everyone, because what we have so far just doesn't work.

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baxslash
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 15:11
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I guess that's the final thing that isn't working then (at least for you).

Would you post a 'Bare bones' version (IE. without your game in it)? I'll take a look at the settings and try building an installer for a simple game...

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Battoad
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 15:43
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Quote: "Would you post a 'Bare bones' version "


Hi, sorry but don't understand what you need.

You need to start with a "simple" game, build the warsetup msi based on that game and location and then tweak the msi in Orca to ensure it both works and validates.

Do you want either a copy of the initial warsetup msi or tweaked msi as per Lee's Orca details, as both would contain my game.

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baxslash
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 16:03
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I thought it might be possible to post a version of the Warsetup file (as it is set up for your game) and then I would just change the application location to my own 'simple game' and have a try with it.

For example the "My Cool Game" example was easily packaged into a single folder.

When I build my installers using VS2008 I put everything into a 'blank' installer folder that can be used for any game.

Don't worry if it's too much hassle to re-arrange it all. Just thought it might help to have a fresh pair of eyes look at the problem.

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Battoad
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 16:23
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I havent created a blank template installer folder simply because i havent got a warsetup project working correctly yet. If I ever do, then yes that would be the next step for future Appups.
I have basically just mimicked "myCoolgame" to create the basic installer, and that works correctly on my pc, but once i tweak it in Orca to remove the sq.bkts etc as per Lee's instructions, the desktop icon simply points to the main app folder and not the exe.
Lee must have made additional change(s) to get his to work but its like looking for a needle in a haystack with millions of possible tweaks. I have also tried to copy msi settings of my Appup created in VS2008 but the settings differ too greatly from Warsetup to make any comparison.
Any help by you, Lee, or anyone would greatly help.

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baxslash
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 16:39
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Could you send me an Email maybe with a link to the msi and I'll try using Orca to get it working too. I'll also start a 'blank' project of my own.

This needs sorting once and for all... I'll give it my own best shot but yes it would help a lot if Lee had time to give any further clues to why your shortcut doesn't work.

Must be really frustrating to be so close!

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Battoad
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 17:54
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Quote: "Could you send me an Email maybe with a link to the msi "


Thanks baxslash, on its way. i've taken dx module out so quicker to transfer, but u will have to use the Intel run.bat. Version you will receive is 99.99% finished so u may want to use it for your review. Hope the changes are to yr liking.

good luck with yr efforts.

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baxslash
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Posted: 24th Mar 2011 18:10
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OK Juney, got your message. I have the merge module anyway (I use it in my installers).

I'll let you know if I make any progress but an old college friend is here so I may be a leetle beet drunk over the w/end!

Cheers!

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DarkByNight
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Posted: 29th Mar 2011 06:02
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Soooo.... Any chance you could test it soon.
Sorry if I stress you with all my requests.
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baxslash
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Posted: 29th Mar 2011 10:55
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Quote: "Soooo.... Any chance you could test it soon.
Sorry if I stress you with all my requests."

Sorry DarkByNight, I thought I'd sent you an Email the other night?

Yes, I could only test it on my PC as my wife was using the Netbook. It centralised on my monitor at 1024x600 but was not running fulldesktop. It should run OK as long as it centralises on the screen.

The code I normally use now is like this:


...and compile "fulldesktop".

I don't get stressed by your requests, in fact I wish I had more time to test more thoroughly! I did have quite a play last night though and it was really quite remenisent (in a good way) of the old text adventures I used to play on my Dad's old green screen PC. Can't remember the model but it ran on "dos" and used the old 5 1/4" floppys

A lot of thought has gone into it. Well done.

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Battoad
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 10:51 Edited at: 12th Apr 2011 16:11
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Good news, no, GREAT NEWS.

WarSetup msi installer really works. I've just received a message to say that my latest Appup game, LogicMaster, has just passed validation and is reday to be published.

A really big thank you to Lee for getting us on the right tracks

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baxslash
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 11:09
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Congratulations Juney!

I'll update the status on the first page.

I'd like to add the details of how to achieve a working installer using Warsetup in the guide I've started plus I guess it would be great to put up here ASAP for other AppUppers, any chance you could produce something?

I know there are lot of people who will benefit from this information!

Well done anyway!!

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Battoad
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 11:49
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Quote: "Congratulations Juney!"


Thanks baxslash, its been a long journey.

The full details of how to use WarSetup and tweak it through Orca, so that the Appups pass validation, definitely need re-publishing and I will be happy to help.
Because Lee published the initial main steps i'm not sure if he will append something to his previous video and threads, but watch this space, baxslash's installer guide, and the Appup forum.

I'm still floating

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The Slayer
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 12:04
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Well done, Juney! Congrats! I'm sure you're in seventh heaven, right?
It's good news to know we can use the free msi installer Warsetup.
Looking forward to the installer guide.
Good luck with your game, Juney.

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
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Battoad
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 12:19
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Quote: "I'm sure you're in seventh heaven, right?"

You bet. I think i am more pleased getting Warsetup to work than finishing my game, wrong priority somehow.
Not sure how brixoid is doing but if i can help any with the free installer in the short term, i would be happy.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 17:30 Edited at: 31st Mar 2011 17:30
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Hi Guys,

Thanks to the hard work by Juney, we have the final missing ingredient to our WarSetup soup Find attached the picture and instructions of what you need to do to get your shortcut to launch the EXE when you click it. I agree there needs to be a consolidation of all this material into a simple step by step on taking your EXE and getting the MSI through WarSetup. At the moment I am knee deep in AppGameKit so if anyone wants to pick up the mantle and have a go at a 'How To Make An MSI For AppUp In WarSetup' document, I would be happy to publish the article on our site and also broadcast it through the AppUp community and tweets too. Writing a cool game or app in DBP is great enough, but being able to publish it and make money through an app store is pretty cool too. Hopefully our dialog is helping make this final step a reality for more coders out there. Thanks everyone for your help! I will tweet this new information now so everyone can have a gander



I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.

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baxslash
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 17:47
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Thanks Lee!

If you don't want to write the full article Juney I'd be happy to write an easy to follow guide as part of my ongoing 'AppUp DBP Developers Group' work. Just send me a rough set of instructions and we can work together to get a nice guide together?

If you are happy to do it yourself then that's fine too but I thought I'd offer my services since this is effectively your achievement!

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Battoad
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 18:46
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Quote: "there needs to be a consolidation of all this material "


Many of you may be able to follow Lees earlier threads and tweaks and using the last bit of info above, put together a working msi suitable for passing validation, but I also think that consolidating is the next most important step because many might not have followed the trail from day one, and anyone new to Appups will find it essential.

I would be happy to do this with baxslash for his article on installers in a forthcoming Newsletter, and for additional forum sites.

Just so you know what it was validated for, here is a quote:

Quote: "We are pleased to inform you that your application has passed binary validation on Windows 7 Starter and Windows XP. In addition to validating your application on these two OSs, we have also validated your application on Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit. The Intel AppUp center expanded to support 64-bit consumer laptops in January of this year, thereby bringing a whole new audience to your apps. Your application results for 64-bit are Application Passes."


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baxslash
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 19:04
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Lee / Moderators,

Juney just made a suggestion in an Email to me and I thought it might be a good idea.

Can we have this thread as a sticky?

Votes please?

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BatVink
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 19:42
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It's stuck

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baxslash
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 20:31 Edited at: 1st Apr 2011 12:14
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Thanks Steve!!

My first sticky...

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DarkByNight
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 03:13
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Thank you a ton to both of my testers (Bax and Sam. ) Seems this baby is bug free finally, just sent the demo off to validation.
Sam, to leave the store just say leave, and to leave the town you just go back to "Crossroads"
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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 10:34
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Good luck with validation DBN!

What did you use for the installer by the way? I probably already asked but I forgot...

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DarkByNight
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 14:47
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Visual studio.
Easy as pie! (Atleast, was the first time I did it! )
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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 16:37
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VS is definitely the easy way. Not the cheapest though!

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Hodgey
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Posted: 4th Apr 2011 03:59
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Hi everyone, just skimmed through the first few posts and I'm in aswell. I have a netbook that is a couple of years old and I installed windows 7 on it recently so I can do some testing, if it runs on my netbook then it should run on anything. Unfortunatley, I don't have a lot of time to do any serious Appup dev so I probably won't be releasing anything for a long time but I'm happy to give any help I can so just email me if you need something tested.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
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baxslash
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Posted: 4th Apr 2011 13:53
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Thanks a lot Hodgey! Any kind of involvement is welcome.

Testing on an old Netbook will be very useful. I'll add you to the list!

Cheers

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Battoad
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Posted: 4th Apr 2011 15:43
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I have just fwd'd a copy of my complete WarSetup tutorial file to baxslash and was able to sort out my last remaining niggle at the same time. Although the previous revisions work, I mentioned that the desktop icon properties did not necessarily show that they were pointing to the exe. By changing the Icon Table and Shortcut Table again in Orca so that it uses the .ico reference instead of the .exe, that problem has been solved. The tutorial feature will show this better.

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baxslash
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Posted: 4th Apr 2011 18:03
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Thanks Juney I'll have a look at it right away!

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Hodgey
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Posted: 5th Apr 2011 00:13
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Quote: "I'll add you to the list!
"


Thanks baxslash

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
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Shakey
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Posted: 5th Apr 2011 00:59
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Hi

I am new to this forum and appup, but I have just downloaded it. I will getting my netbook tonight. any concerns I should be looking out for when I start developing.
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Hodgey
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Posted: 5th Apr 2011 08:18 Edited at: 5th Apr 2011 08:19
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Hi, welcome to the forums.

When developing for netbooks, you will need to take performance into account. As you probably know, netbooks aren't very powerful so it is a good idea to avoid resource heavy programs such as large 3d games. Efficiency is another thing you will need to factor in when developing, using the most efficient methods will improve the performance of your program. If you're developing a game, its a good idea to always keep an eye on the frames per second. Also play around with resolutions and see what suits your program best, I've heard and seen on my netbook that full screen resolution on a netbook increases performance. I think that covers it, happy developing!!!

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
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baxslash
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Posted: 5th Apr 2011 09:16
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Quote: "Hi

I am new to this forum and appup, but I have just downloaded it. I will getting my netbook tonight. any concerns I should be looking out for when I start developing."

Hi Shakey!

Hodgey is right, the main concern is performance. Running fullscreen exclusive can mean you need to reload all your media if you loose focus so it's best to start fulldesktop (windowed fullscreen) and only go fullscreen exclusive if you really have to. I'm still struggling to get one of my games reloading the media properly...

I've recently started a guide to developing for AppUp which will be started off for the monthly TGC newsletter and then improved upon and expanded for the full guide. You can see the first part in this month's newsletter here:
Newsletter April 2011

2D games work best but simple 3D games (without too much on screen at once) can work really well. I've just started a game using pre-rendered skyboxes for the 'rooms' my character walks around. It'll be a 'Resident Evil' style game (click my signature to have a look).

If you get stuck or need any help just ask and I'll try to help ...or someone else will!

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Doz
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Posted: 5th Apr 2011 20:21
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Hello all,
I'm a little late getting to the AppUp party, wish I had gotten in on the competition last year, but better late than never. Finally sat down and started my project last night, a sort of 2d puzzle game in the realm of Angry Birds or World of Goo. Hopefully I'll actually get this project completed and out there by the summer.

I did want to throw in one idea though, that I'll be keeping in the back of my mind. While the AppUp store is meant for netbooks, I also have it installed on my HP tm2 tablet pc. Some of these games work really well on a touch screen, something that should be getting more popular later in the year.

Anyways, looking forward to more comments in this thread, its already been a great help so far. Btw, I have a Samsung netbook, and my HP tablet (low power Core2Duo) with a little more oomph, when I'm not working on stuff for class I can offer my help for testing.

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baxslash
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Joined: 26th Dec 2006
Location: Duffield
Posted: 5th Apr 2011 21:02
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Thanks a lot Doz!

I'll add you as a possible Beta tester too.

Look forward to seeing your game!

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Shakey
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Joined: 9th Mar 2007
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Posted: 5th Apr 2011 22:13
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Hi again all,

I was not able to get my netbook last night, so I am deciding to just develop with my regular PC and emulate a net book. Now my main coding language is C++, so I will probably using DarkGDK.

My question is do I just develop my game first using Dark GDK, then worry about the validation, because I am having a very hard time grasping the whole validation process with Dark GDK.

I tried to follow Lee's videos, but it is using DBPro and thing are different.
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Hodgey
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Joined: 10th Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posted: 6th Apr 2011 10:40
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I don't know a lot about c++ and visual studio but I think this is how it works. You develop your game using DarkGDK and whatever other libraries you need as well as the intel appup sdk (which I think plugs in to VS). You then follow intel's instructions for validation.

Lee made videos for DBPro because (this is what I think) DBPro cannot simply be used with intel's sdk but it could still be used so Lee had to make videos showing how users can validate their DBPro apps for submission to the appup store.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
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