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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / TGC App Developers Group

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baxslash
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Posted: 6th Apr 2011 11:02
There are lots of threads regarding getting C++ applications through validation on the AppUp Developer Program website.

I would concentrate on making your game first. Remember to make it fast and flexible like I suggested in the newsletter and worry about adding the validation process in afterwards. The SDK is designed to be used with C++ so you should find it well documented and supported.

If you get yourself an account setup on the AppUp site you can ask questions there too. They are very helpful!
AppUp Developer Site

Battoad
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Posted: 6th Apr 2011 11:48 Edited at: 12th Apr 2011 16:13
Building a free AppUp Installer!

Together with baxslash, we have made a pdf tutorial on using WarSetup 3 as an installer package, which can then be edited using Orca to help achieve validation for the Intel Appup Store.

These programs do work as i recently received validation passes for one of my Appups, LogicMaster, for Windows XP, 7 32bit and 7 64 bit.

It may look daunting to start with but once you've worked through it you may find it the easiest, certainly the cheapest, installer to use.

Don't be afraid to ask if you get stuck, thats what the forums for.

Good luck.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 6th Apr 2011 18:25 Edited at: 6th Apr 2011 18:27
Hi Guys,

Thanks to Juney and his editor, find attached a PDF showing how to create free MSI installers for your AppUp submission process You can thank Juney by buying his app in the AppUp store! I have attached it again so there's no chance of you missing this cool tutorial. Well done.

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.

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Hodgey
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Posted: 6th Apr 2011 23:59
Awesome tutorial!!! If I ever get around to building a program I will definetly use it.

Could you guys look at another install creator, this one and tell me what you think:
http://www.clickteam.com/website/usa/install-creator.html

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
The Slayer
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Posted: 7th Apr 2011 01:51
Quote: "Could you guys look at another install creator, this one and tell me what you think:
http://www.clickteam.com/website/usa/install-creator.html"

As far as I'm aware, this install creator doesn't make .msi files, which are needed to pass validation on AppUp. I tried this installer before, with no luck. Install creator by clickteam makes an executable and not the required MSI file.

A BIG thanks to Lee, Juney, baxslash and whoever helped on making this tutorial for getting our programs/games ready for validation on AppUp!

Cheers

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Hodgey
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Posted: 7th Apr 2011 03:00
Yeah, I thought it was a bit too easy using clickteam's install creator, thanks for the reply TheSlayer

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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Apr 2011 10:59
Quote: "A BIG thanks to Lee, Juney, baxslash and whoever helped on making this tutorial for getting our programs/games ready for validation on AppUp!"

All Juney's work really. I just put a few extra words in here and there.

This will make a big part of next month's article in the Newsletter. I'll also be posting a link to a 'blank project solution' and some simple instructions for building an installer in Visual Studio 2008, for those who need it.

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 11:31
Hey guys, I had been working in a game but gave up after a while due to the amount of lag when running it on my netbook, it ran flawlessly on my larger laptop. I tried to increase the performance by looking at and incorporating the techniques described in the 'decouple the display loop' thread but even their example lagged on my netbook!!! So, I am wondering if it is just my netbook, 2d stuff runs fine but anything 3d (even the chess game that comes with windows 7) lags. So could you guys run my game on your netbook and give a bit of feedback. The desired fps is 60, on my netbook, I get around 30-40. I've attached the game so any feedback is welcome.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein

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baxslash
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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 11:49
Hi Hodgey!

I'll try your game on my Netbook as soon as I get a chance and give you a comparison. Honestly though 40fps is all I can get out of some of my 3D stuff too and frankly I think it's enough most of the time.

One way you might get some extra fps is compiling fullscreen exclusive (or use "Set Window Off") but if the game loses focus you will have to re-load all of your media and that can be a pain... it's the main reason I haven't submitted my game "Backlash" yet for validation

In short it's tough to get a decent framerate but you may have to accept 40 as decent. As long as it plays OK I wouldn't worry about it.

I'll test it anyway and let you know.

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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 12:15
Thanks Baxslash, I just re-tested my game on my netbook and it was reporting 10-20 fps in fulldesktop. I think the 30-40 fps was reported when I was experimenting with resolutions and tried it on 800x600 instead of its initial resolution of 1024x600 and had the fog turned off, but it looks messy with the fog turned off (I think).

Ok, I'm trying everything I can think of even object culling and turning the fog off and only getting a max of 10-20 fps. I'll be interested to see your feedback Baxslash and once again thanks.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
baxslash
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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 12:40
Quote: "I think the 30-40 fps was reported when I was experimenting with resolutions and tried it on 800x600 instead of its initial resolution of 1024x600"

Might be worth considering running it windowed at a lower resolution then?

I'll see if I have any other ideas when I look at the game. I'll try it later today here at work and see if I have any ideas.

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 13:50
Thanks Baxslash, there is no rush though, I have started another project which doesn't use any 3d stuff , I'm just curious as to how well this game runs on other netbooks. If it achieves a decent frame rate on your netbook then I will continue development on it and maybe sell it though your company .

By the way, which brand of gpu does your netbook have? and how much video ram?

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
baxslash
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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 14:10
Quote: "Thanks Baxslash, there is no rush though, I have started another project which doesn't use any 3d stuff , I'm just curious as to how well this game runs on other netbooks."

OK, I'll check it tonight then I'm really busy today

Quote: "If it achieves a decent frame rate on your netbook then I will continue development on it and maybe sell it though your company ."

OK. I'm happy to publish it as long as you don't mind some minor input on my part? Only because any negative feedback will reflect on me and my other games (I would say this to anyone wanting me to publish for them). Send me an Email if you decide you want me to publish it for you (I'll do it for free and give you ALL the profit for your game).

Quote: "By the way, which brand of gpu does your netbook have? and how much video ram?"

Intel(R) Atom(TM) Processor N455 (1.66GHz, 512KB L2) + Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator 3150. Not sure about video ram it's integrated...

Hodgey
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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 14:19
Quote: "OK. I'm happy to publish it as long as you don't mind some minor input on my part?"

No worries, I'd do the same thing if I were in your position.

Quote: "Intel(R) Atom(TM) Processor N455 (1.66GHz, 512KB L2) + Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator 3150."


That's a step up from my intel atom 1.6ghz N270 and intel GMA 950 which, according to the dxdiag has 251 mb of vram.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
baxslash
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Posted: 11th Apr 2011 14:57 Edited at: 11th Apr 2011 21:41
Just had a quick play anyway

It ran at a steady 60fps here but that's no surprise on my work PC.

I have a few suggestions:

1-When I hit a tree or boulder I assume that's game over? If that's the case it might be worth using something like "You Crashed!" or "Game Over!" as I wasn't sure if I would be able to continue if my car stopped spinning. Also the buggy seemed to speed up when I hit the obstacles which seemed odd. It should maybe bounce up into the air or slow down but not speed up.

2-It might be nice to simplify some of the textures like the police car and the buggy to match the simple style of the trees etc? I have some ideas for styling the general look of the game too and I'd be happy to talk via Email if you like.

3-I like the idea of getting drunk when you hit a bottle. Might be nice to give it some kind of text like "Don't drink and drive!". Also I thought some random 'wobblyness' might add to the effect.

4-Is there a goal or just last as long as you can? Might be nice to have a highscore table or at least a personal best to compare to?

Overall I think the game should work nicely on a netbook, the idea and gameplay are simple which is ideal. Also the models are low poly and there aren't too many of them on screen at any one time (are you using "exclude object" once an object is behind the camera or re-using the same objects? This could also help your fps)...

Fog might also be the problem here. You can get the same effect by playing with lighting and it should run a lot quicker.

Try using:


EDIT: I just tried it on my netbook and yes I get around 10fps too. Have a try at using no fog and perhaps my other suggestions regarding objects and perhaps it will run a little faster.

Hodgey
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 00:46
Wow, thanks for the feedback and those are some great ideas. I will get to work on them ASAP!!!

Quote: " the buggy seemed to speed up when I hit the obstacles"

Fixed

Quote: "using something like "You Crashed!" or "Game Over!" "

Done

Quote: "It might be nice to simplify some of the textures"

I'll have a go, the buggy and police cars are from a darkMatter pack so I just left them 'as is' when I put them into my game.

Quote: "give it some kind of text like "Don't drink and drive!". "

Done

Quote: "I thought some random 'wobblyness' might add to the effect.
"

Another good idea, I'll try that and possibly rotate the camera a bit to add to the effect

Quote: "I have some ideas for styling the general look of the game too and I'd be happy to talk via Email if you like.
"

That would be great, I love hearing new ideas so I'll email you once I have this performance issue fixed.

Quote: "Fog might also be the problem here. You can get the same effect by playing with lighting and it should run a lot quicker.
"

I tried your example and it works quite well but it shines very heavily on the car so I'll play around with the lighting a bit more.

I've attached a version of my game with the changes implemented and thanks for your ideas and help baxslash.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein

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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 01:20
Great! Glad to help.

I'll take a look at the latest version and let you know how it goes!

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 11:03 Edited at: 12th Apr 2011 11:04
AppUp SDK UPDATE V 1.1.1


For those who weren't aware there has been an update to the AppUp SDK (looks like it came out March 16th but I just noticed it...), it now allows you to add an "Upgrade" button in your game to allow people to purchase the "Full" version of your game from within your demo.

I'll have a try at adding the code into one of my demo games (probably "The Last Stand") and post the code if I get it working!

In the mean time the new SDK can be downloaded here:
AppUp SDK V.1.1.1

You can take a look at the C++ code for a button click event (IE. What to do when someone clicks your upgrade button) here:
Adding an Upgrade button

Battoad
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 11:55
Hi Hodgey

Quote: "I've attached a version of my game with the changes implemented and thanks for your ideas and help baxslash."


Had a quick d/l and try, and 1st impressions are it is very good. Will need to try it more fully later this week though.

Main point which threw me a little was you are using my ASX-nb zip folder name ( Alien SuDiceThru-Xtreme) for your download. You may want to change this to FB as an example,(Flaming Buggy).

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 12:08
Quote: "I've attached a version of my game with the changes implemented and thanks for your ideas and help baxslash."

I have a few more suggestions if you don't mind as it still runs pretty slow. I think the poly count might be higher than I first thought for one thing.

I'm going to try a few things out first as I noticed you posted the code with the game (if you don't mind).

One simple suggestion for the car being so bright is just to use "Set object light" set to zero for the buggy. It should be fairly well lit anyway. I was also wondering whether it might look cool if you use a spotlight so it looks more like headlights but more on that later.

I'll have a little look at the code in more detail and let you know where I think improvements could be made to speed things up.

DarkByNight
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 12:18
I seem to have programmers block.
I just can't seem to find any motivation at all, shadowcast 2 is so ugly and buggy, I just can't see getting any further with my current codebase, and I never was one to be great with ideas for the storylines and such so that has me stumped as well.
I honestly don't know what to do to get motivation, I have tried making a roguelike and 2D games and what not but I get to a point where I don't know how to progress with my code, either I have to place tiles manually to make my maps, because I don't know how to make a map editor to fulfill my needs, or I can't wrap my head around random content generation.
Any ideas for someone who loves programming but don't know how to progress further?
baxslash
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 12:29
Quote: "Any ideas for someone who loves programming but don't know how to progress further?"

I tend to have about 3-5 projects on the go at any one time. That way if I get bored or demotivated I can jump ship for a while and work on something else.

I have an RPG, Educational Maths game, Platform, Cut-Scene editor, 2D Physics based game and a 3D Physics sandbox game all going at the moment!

Try something new for a while?

DarkByNight
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 12:39
I would if I knew how. I can't wrap my head around the more advanced programming concepts, I can't even make a map scroll, or make the map in the first place.
I keep looking at code day in and day out but somehow it doesn't register in my brain, most of the tutorials that might be useful to me are dead links or has media which is a dead link.
Wah, maybe I'm just being silly and having the wrong approach to the whole thing but I feel like there should be a natural progression to this whole thing, some kind of learning curve.
I feel I master text and the core commands, now to go on to the more advanced topics.
baxslash
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Posted: 12th Apr 2011 12:58
Quote: "I feel I master text and the core commands, now to go on to the more advanced topics."

That's a sensible approach and possibly the right thing for you.

You could try starting simple with say space invaders or even a moon lander game? Once you've grasped the basics of 2D or 3D you'll leap ahead, trust me.

They aren't so hard really compared to what you're already doing. It'll click if you keep pushing yourself. It's up to you but I would think to myself "What simple game do I like?" and then just start with the first logical step. Using the moon lander as an example:
1-How do I put a spaceship on the screen "Sprite"... OK
2-How do I position it? Use variables for the X and Y position on screen... OK
3-How do I move the sprite... etc.

It'll come quicker than you might think. You clearly have the right thought process for making a game, just not the experience and there's only one way to get experience

Good luck whatever you decide to do!

Hodgey
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Posted: 13th Apr 2011 00:27
Quote: "Had a quick d/l and try, and 1st impressions are it is very good. Will need to try it more fully later this week though."

Thanks Juney

Quote: "you are using my ASX-nb zip folder name ( Alien SuDiceThru-Xtreme) for your download. "

Huh? The name of the download file is "flaming buggy (2).zip". If this is conflicting with you file name(s) then I will change it immeadiately.

Quote: "I'm going to try a few things out first as I noticed you posted the code with the game (if you don't mind).
"

That's the very reason I posted the code so experiment as much as you want.

Quote: "I was also wondering whether it might look cool if you use a spotlight so it looks more like headlights but more on that later.
"

You are full of good ideas Baxslash, I will get to work on that.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
baxslash
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Posted: 13th Apr 2011 00:47
Quote: "You are full of good ideas Baxslash, I will get to work on that."

I have more ideas than time to work on them unfortunately... that said I'm posting a new nearly finished AppUp app in WIP in a few minutes "Football Factors" is a new educational maths game based on Football (soccer).

Hodgey, I'm pretty sure your game will get a speed benefit from switching to sparky's collision too. If you're willing to edit your code that is... I'll have a test run on the code you posted when I get the chance.

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Posted: 13th Apr 2011 14:06
Quote: "I'm pretty sure your game will get a speed benefit from switching to sparky's collision too"

I had trouble with sparky's collision before, scaling was a problem, I'll give it another try though.

Quote: "I'm posting a new nearly finished AppUp app in WIP in a few minutes "Football Factors""

I'll go check it out.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
baxslash
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Posted: 13th Apr 2011 14:53
Quote: "I had trouble with sparky's collision before, scaling was a problem, I'll give it another try though."

I'm taking a look at this right now.

Seems like you are moving all of your objects instead of just the car, is that right? Re-positioning over 100 object every loop will not help the fps problem, or am I not understanding your code right?

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Posted: 13th Apr 2011 15:38
You're reading my code correctly, I didn't think it would have made too much of a difference as opposed to only repositioning the car because all objects still have to be drawn. I could be completely wrong about this theory though as I am not very knowledgeable about how 3d objects are drawn. I'll try coding it so that only the car moves, I hope it does solve the performance issue.

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Posted: 13th Apr 2011 15:42
It might not make a huge difference but every time you make a command call you are going to have some impact on performance as it is always going to calculate something. It's always better to make as few command calls as you can get away with...

Once I have sparky's working with your current code I'll merge it into your latest version if you like? Or I'll post my changes and you can do it yourself?

Can I suggest you start a WIP thread for this game as I don't want to clog up this thread too much? Once you have it set up post a link here and we'll continue this there.

Hodgey
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Posted: 14th Apr 2011 03:28 Edited at: 14th Apr 2011 05:06
Quote: "It might not make a huge difference but every time you make a command call you are going to have some impact on performance as it is always going to calculate something."

Excellent point

Quote: "Once I have sparky's working with your current code I'll merge it into your latest version if you like? Or I'll post my changes and you can do it yourself?"

Posting the changes would be great, I'd like to learn from it so I'll merge it in.

Quote: "Can I suggest you start a WIP thread for this game as I don't want to clog up this thread too much?"

Agreed, I'll make one up right now.

Ok, made one and here's the link:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=184063&b=8

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
baxslash
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Posted: 14th Apr 2011 11:04
Quote: "Posting the changes would be great, I'd like to learn from it so I'll merge it in."

I sent it via Email. I'll post the changes on your WIP thread if you like? Off to have a look now!

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Posted: 14th Apr 2011 12:02 Edited at: 14th Apr 2011 12:03
I've had a response from Lee regarding the mOcean (advertising) dll. If anyone here can write dlls or knows a bit about C++ then please take a look at this thread as it would mean DBP users can make a lot more money from their AppUp games (even the free ones) just by showing an advertising banner in their game.

EDIT: mOcean thread

I know these banners can be annoying but you can take them out of the full version of your game if you want and just use it for a little extra revenue.

I throw myself on the mercy of anyone who is willing to help get this working for DBP. It may work pretty much as Lee has sent it to me for DarkGDK so it's just a hop and a skip to getting it working in DBP (I hope)!

Thanks in advance guys!!

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Posted: 14th Apr 2011 18:41
Just found out there's no broadband where I'm going on holiday so I'll see you all in 12 days! Have fun!

The Slayer
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Posted: 15th Apr 2011 02:52
Quote: "Just found out there's no broadband where I'm going on holiday so I'll see you all in 12 days! Have fun!"

Too bad, baxslash. I was hoping to send you the latest version of Brixoid to get tested on your netbook, but it'll have to wait for later, right?
I think I got all them bugs out, so I looked forward to know how it runs now on your netbook, but if you're on holiday, I wont bother you.

Perhaps some other forum members that have a netbook would like to test Brixoid out for me? I've asked more than once if there's anyone with a netbook to test my game out, but no reaction so far. It's really weird.
Anyways, if there are some members that want to test Brixoid out for me on their netbook, please let me know. Thanks.

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
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Posted: 15th Apr 2011 11:13
Enjoy your holiday baxslash, you deserve it .

Quote: "Anyways, if there are some members that want to test Brixoid out for me on their netbook, please let me know. Thanks."

I'm happy to test out your game on my netbook so just send me an email.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
The Slayer
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Posted: 15th Apr 2011 14:23
Quote: "I'm happy to test out your game on my netbook so just send me an email."

Thanks a lot, Hodgey! That's really nice of you! Expect an email really soon.

Cheers

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Posted: 17th Apr 2011 04:24
Hi Guys,

Could some one test this, on there netbook and let me know the results. The code is strictly C++, but just need to know if it can be run at a netbook's resolution.

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Hodgey
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Posted: 18th Apr 2011 03:16
@ The Slayer, I've replied to your email, awesome breakout game but a couple of issues.

@ Shakey, just tried it and the resolution seems fine but every 5 or so seconds there is some noticeable lag however no significant change in the screen fps.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
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Posted: 18th Apr 2011 14:03
Quote: "I've had a response from Lee regarding the mOcean (advertising) dll. If anyone here can write dlls or knows a bit about C++ then please take a look at this thread as it would mean DBP users can make a lot more money from their AppUp games (even the free ones) just by showing an advertising banner in their game.
"


I have simply used a Web container, and put Google AdSense in the container. I have Blue GUI (which I think is now free?) which contains a very easy to use web container...2 lines of code to add it and display my web page (which is the size of a banner).

The Slayer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2011 18:32
Quote: "@ The Slayer, I've replied to your email, awesome breakout game but a couple of issues."

Yep, I know, Hodgey. And, thank you a lot for your thorough test and report, fella!
I think I might have solved the framerate 'bug'. It's still early to say, but its looking good so far. Is it okay that I send you the 'fixed' version later on to test out?
The other 'bugs' related to the local highscore and the scoreboard exe are probably caused by the UAC in Windows 7. Are you running Windows 7 on your netbook?

Quote: "I have Blue GUI (which I think is now free?)"

Hum, I just checked, and it doesnt seem do be free.

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
Hodgey
15
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Joined: 10th Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 01:33
Yes I am running Windows 7 however I have the UAC switch to "never notify". Also, the saving of the highscores in my game Flamin' Buggy (you can check it out in the WIP board) works fine.

Quote: "Is it okay that I send you the 'fixed' version later on to test out?
"

Certainly, I'm happy to keep testing this game until every bug has been worked out.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
The Slayer
Forum Vice President
15
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Joined: 9th Nov 2009
Playing: (Hide and) Seek and Destroy on my guitar!
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 01:39
Quote: "Certainly, I'm happy to keep testing this game until every bug has been worked out."

Awesome! Heheheh. Keep an eye on your inbox.

Quote: "Yes I am running Windows 7 however I have the UAC switch to "never notify". Also, the saving of the highscores in my game Flamin' Buggy (you can check it out in the WIP board) works fine. "

Hum, strange. Baxslash didn't mention any problems with Brixoid regarding the highscores stuff.

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
Hodgey
15
Years of Service
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Joined: 10th Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 02:28
Updating my netbook and just realized that it is installing SP1...and it has just finished. Can your game run with SP1 installed?

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
The Slayer
Forum Vice President
15
Years of Service
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Joined: 9th Nov 2009
Playing: (Hide and) Seek and Destroy on my guitar!
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 02:39
Quote: "Can your game run with SP1 installed?"

Hum, I'm not sure, but you could try? Thanks.
I dont have Windows 7, but Vista on my PC.

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
Hodgey
15
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Joined: 10th Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 02:50 Edited at: 19th Apr 2011 03:09
Quote: "Hum, I'm not sure, but you could try? Thanks.
"

Sure

Just tested both windowed and fullscreen and both are running like normal, no change.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
BatVink
Moderator
21
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 16:02
@The Slayer, Blue Gui is indeed free...

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=153413&b=1

The Slayer
Forum Vice President
15
Years of Service
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Joined: 9th Nov 2009
Playing: (Hide and) Seek and Destroy on my guitar!
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 16:13
@BatVink
I could be wrong, but you still need a UserID and Key to activate the plugin, right?

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 19th Apr 2011 21:22
I think I misunderstood it, looks like you do need a key.

Maybe BBB Gui can provide a web container?

Brendy boy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Jul 2005
Location: Croatia
Posted: 20th Apr 2011 02:01
Quote: "Maybe BBB Gui can provide a web container?"

yes, it can

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