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Work in Progress / RPG Engine: Geisha House. Screenshots and interface Beta test.

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eek
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Posted: 18th Jul 2006 12:00
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First off, awesome looking game Cash. I'll be glad to see a full game actually be finished for once!

Either way, I wanted to tell you my opinion about this:
Quote: "Very, very cool. You guys just want me to get it done faster. I've decided to leave a few things out of Geisha House, so that I can get the release out sooner. There won't be any character paperdolls, and a couple other things. However, all other core gameplay functionality will be in. I don't think I'll include save games either. I've geared everything toward making that easier to implement, but it's still a lot of work. I'll think about it, but probably not."


Here's my opinion on the quickness of release. I wouldn't push for a quicker release to take out cool features. Maybe something menial and unimportant, but if you think it would make the game better in the least I would go ahead and take as much time as you need. The game has enough hype to hold it a while longer, but even if it didn't I think it would be a better spend the time you need. I'm not sure what you're planning to take out either so this post could be meaningless, but I just want to let you know anyways. The only reason I say this is because it is obvious when a commercial game comes out that was forced to release earlier than the developer wanted because it would be more lucrative than letting the fans wait longer.

Anyways, that's just my opinion, so the final decision is of course up to you. Not meaning any offense or anything either, I'm not sure how this post sounds, but it's just friendly advice. Either way you choose, the game will still definately be worth the download no matter what! Keep it up!
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SageTech
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Posted: 18th Jul 2006 12:53
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Quote: "I estimate 8 hours of gameplay. That's small, but this project is designed for me to perfect my engine without getting bogged down with too much game all at once. However, everything from this game will be portable to the next installment.
"


8 hours!? Thats alot more then many games here can boast. I also agree with eek, becouse though waiting for the release will hurt in the short run, in the long run an even better game will be better. Cheers.

Back by unpopular demand!
Battle Legacy has gone MMORPG! Nah, Im just kidding. But seriously, check the WIP

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 19th Jul 2006 19:54 Edited at: 19th Jul 2006 19:58
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Quote: "The screenshots and comments make me want to download it even more, but, without broadband, it's like being stranded in the middle of the ocean on a single island. Good thing i'm going to get broadband soon then!"

I'll work something out for everyone. I'll probably have one fat download, and then one broken up into pieces. Like 4000 1kb files or something.

Quote: " I wouldn't push for a quicker release to take out cool features."

Very good advice. As per your comment, I've been giving it more thought. I think everyone can live without the paperdolls until the next installment. However, no save feature might just be a downer on everyone's day. I mean, you're playing for 4 hours, then one of my ill tempered orcs eats you for lunch. Then you're mad at me... I'll meditate on it.

Quote: "8 hours!? Thats alot more then many games here can boast."

Well, ummm.... Maybe 4 hours. But definitely no less than 4. I guess it just depends on what kind of RPGer you are. It will take some time to build up the character, but I'm not going to make it too awfully hard to do so.

**************************


Okay, I've been hard at work, I've just had squat to show for it. I'm on the verge of doing some very great things, but I don't want to say anything just yet, because bragging then failing is pretty embarrasing. However, I predict success.

However, I have finished one other cool thing. It's not integrated, but it's almost ready to be. Framerates are perfect (around 400, plus my magical culling system), implementation is... pretty perfect. Take a look, download the video.

Dynamic Cloth Video, 2.77 MB




Please note that this demonstration has nothing to do with Ageia, DarkPhysics, etc, nor will it ever. This video is pure sweat and determination, but mostly sweat. Also, please note that as this is a tech demo, I'm not using my standard animation handler, so animations are not blended.

You can all expect better things soon. As he says in the video, "... Peace"


Come see the WIP!

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Alquerian
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 03:34 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 03:34
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Hey b1tches
lol

That is great cash. The video was a great cloth demonstration.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
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SageTech
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 04:26
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Quote: "Please note that this demonstration has nothing to do with Ageia, DarkPhysics, etc, nor will it ever. This video is pure sweat and determination, but mostly sweat. "


Is that all done completly done by hand without any help from a dll? If so I shall bow to your programming godness.

Back by unpopular demand!
Battle Legacy has gone MMORPG! Nah, Im just kidding. But seriously, check the WIP

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 04:46 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 04:48
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Quote: "Is that all done completly done by hand without any help from a dll? "

Oh, good Lord no. I'm good, but not that good. I have an idea how I'd implement cloth without a DLL of course, but this isn't an example (I'd have jointed cubes that deformed a split mesh based on the physics interactions).

This is done with the standard Cloth and Particles pack for DBP. I'm just surprised that I'd never seen it done like this before. A lot of the work I did was optimizing it for use within the game. Nice effects are cool, but if they suck the CPU dry then they're worthless. Cloth is a pretty CPU expensive item, especially running at the resolution that I need it to run at for my collisions to work properly. But, thankfully, I've worked it all out. Now comes the tedious part - making cloth generation scriptable.

Quote: "Hey b1tches
lol"

Haha I was wondering when someone was going to mention that...


Come see the WIP!
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eek
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 08:27 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 08:27
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Quote: "Very good advice. As per your comment, I've been giving it more thought."


Thanks for listening! The cloth looks amazing by the way.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 09:19 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 09:24
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Okay, my work has been successful. I had a secret issue that I wasn't going to tell anyone, because it was a game killer. Much the reason that I suspect every other RPG in DBP has failed.

DBP Keyframe Animation Culling Problem

Basically, DBP doesn't cull keyframe animated models. So, every model that you load lowers the FPS by a certain amount. 50 units gives 15 fps. Pretty lousey.

So, in my game, if I loaded 10 entities the frame rate would sink to about 15. There is no way an RPG can function that way.

With my manual model and animation culling, I've successfully loaded 20 entities while taking only a nominal FPS hit. I shouldn't need more than 20, because I'll be recycling entities and dynamically spawning them as I need them. Also, I'm going to use a teleport system to increase efficiency. That is, certain types of spawns will search for a free entity to teleport to the spawn point rather than creating a new one.

Here's a debug screen...



Beautiful The numbered column on the right is a list of all entities and a description of what they're doing. The list extends below the screen. I've just never had that many entities loaded in the game.

[Edit]
Wow, 976 objects! I never noticed that. Pretty crazy...
[/Edit]

I can't wait!

Quote: "The cloth looks amazing by the way."

Glad you like it! It's a rather exciting feature for me to be able to implement.


Come see the WIP!

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 10:03
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Wow! This is an amazing game! The cloth is amazing, there is obviously a lot of work, and at least 4 hours is much better than a few minutes!

Keep up the good work!

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Baggers
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 12:28
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Cash: I'm seeing some really beautiful work here, very impressive stuff, the thing is whenever I see you shots with the character it is top down and all the majesty of the scene is gone. Please say that your going to have some different camera angles later in this project.

M.I.A is pending
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Fallout
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 13:07 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 13:08
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I'd imagine the top down approach is what keeps everything running nice and sweet. Maybe Cash has some other funky ideas in store though. I quite like the top down angle personally ... I dont know, it's just a bit different, although I might be biased cos my project has a similar perspective. If it allows him to pack the envionment with objects and visuals that would otherwise make the game crawl, I think its a small price to pay personally.

Cash, I noticed that your guy is left handed. Did you model him that way, or is it to do with your modeller exporting for a left handed matrix rather than a right handed matrix? In Milkshape I spent years exporting my models and eventually realised they were back to front .... so I just unticked the "Right Handled" tick box on the DirectX JT exporter, and suddenly all my guys were the right way round.

Still looking cool man.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 14:07 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 14:08
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Quote: "Cash: I'm seeing some really beautiful work here, very impressive stuff, the thing is whenever I see you shots with the character it is top down and all the majesty of the scene is gone. Please say that your going to have some different camera angles later in this project."


I'm glad you like it! I agree with what you're saying. Like the graveyard pictures are somewhat majestic when viewed in first person, and not so much when viewed from top down. But Fallout is right, it really does help with the rendering. When the camera is rotated up, DBP renders everything in the view-port, as it does not cull obscured objects.

However, in the game you can rotate the camera however you want. You can rotate it all the way down to a 3rd person view. I'm also going to have the camera pop into the position of the player at that level, giving the player a perfect first person viewpoint. However, certain interface functionality will be lost at that angle. As the camera rotates on the x axis, object movement slides from the XZ plains to the XY plains, making it difficult to move objects. The game playing area is like a table that allows you to slide objects around, but it doesn't work vertically. I think it will be more of a way to look at your environment.

Quote: "Cash, I noticed that your guy is left handed."

I am too I didn't model that guy, but I am rather pleased with his left handedness. It allows him to rock harder than he might otherwise. But, your advice is righteous, and I will definitely remember it.




Come see the WIP!
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Baggers
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 14:48 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 14:55
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Cash: Fantastic, I just didnt want to see all that work 'warped' so to speak. But as long as I can gaze out at it then foine!

M.I.A is pending
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Fallout
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 15:16
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I second the words of the Baggers. Thats pretty cool that you can still look around and change the angle to check out the scenery.

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Chenak
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 16:15 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 16:15
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I've sent you something which should help your animation problems hopefully.

Also from the way your camera is angled this code should increase your fps quite a bit


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 16:20
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That is very kind of you Chenak I'm already doing that though. You must have missed this post...

DBP Keyframe Animation Culling Problem

But good looking out! And good code. Although, my culling code is a bit more involved. I also stop animating anything off screen, which also helps with the FPS.




Come see the WIP!
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Chenak
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 16:24 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 16:24
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Grr hotmail is being a pain, won't let me send it to you. Do you have a hotmail account at all?

edit: actually nevermind it seems you already have it
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 16:28 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 08:23
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No, just my Gmail Odd that it would be giving you trouble. Is it too big?

I'm very curious to see what you've got for me


Come see the WIP!

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Chenak
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 16:39 Edited at: 20th Jul 2006 16:43
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You've already got it so don't worry about it Quite a few people don't have that particular plugin since the creator buggered off somewhere (After increasing the price of course). So if you buy it you wont even get the bloody product, as i discovered when i tried to buy the darksdk version

However, i get a HUGE fps increase using this. Only problem is it needs a vs2 compatible card. But knowing you, you're already using it It doesn't require any additional programming to get it to work, just put it in an FX file and load it up

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 16:52 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 08:23
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Oh! I understand now! You know what, I'm not actually using the Advanced Animation Plugin right now, simply because much of my media is keyframe animated. I was just comparing speed with keyframe animation.

But that looks incredible. In the future, when I do use boned animation, I will absolutely include this shader. Very, very interesting. I had no idea such a thing existed.

Thanks!!


Come see the WIP!

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 08:27
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Here's some stuff I've been working on lately...





There's more, but I can't show you, or it will spoil the game.

This is the new Geisha House. The old one is a nice building, but really doesn't have much to do with hedonism. It's actually the perfect inn - kitchen, three rooms upstairs, a common area. I'll just add a bar and some tables and I'll be set.




Come see the WIP!
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Fallout
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 11:27
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Funktastic. Nice textures and prefabs.

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Wiggett
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 11:38
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thems some classy orcs!

Syndicate remastered: Corporate persuasion through urban violence.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 16:08
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Quote: "Funktastic. Nice textures and prefabs. "

Actually, the only thing I used was a barrel (not visible) and that statue. Everything else is constructed out of primitive shapes. I modeled that lantern so that I could easily drop lighting into any building. The glass is transparent, so I can put the lights inside it and get some cool effects. I made those picture frames, pillars, that pool, etc.

I guess I'm just a nut when it comes to stuff like this. I can see it in my head, and I won't stop until I've got it.

Quote: "thems some classy orcs!"

Glad you like them! I've actually added lots of other characters. I'll have a video in the next few days. I just want to include lots of stuff in it.




Come see the WIP!
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Chenak
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 16:35 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 16:36
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Looks breathtaking

I see you're having troubles with arches in lightmaps with 3dws too

If you need any help with models let me know, kinda busy with uni stuff and work but I might beable to find the time to contribute a lil something
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 17:09 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 17:10
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Hmmm... that arch does look pretty bad. Horrible, actually. Part of it is my fault, I had the edges extruded too far, a bit like a mutant ledge.



Fixed a bit. I suppose I can live with it... I'll give it some thought. Maybe I'll just replace it with a rectangular opening.

I really appreciate your offer Chenak. What kind of stuff do you do? I've pretty much got all of my buildings under control, what I'm really in the market for are a couple of characters. Like a couple of females, one a healer, the other a barmaid, another in a bikini (it's integral to the story, I promise). Maybe an old man. I'm sure not filling out an order, just throwing some ideas your way in case you already had something laying around.

I'm not currently using boned animation, but if that's how you animate, then I can sure integrate it into the engine. Having multiple options is always good.

Well, I do appreciate your offer. I look forward to hearing more from you!

Oh, and by the way, every model that will be used in this freeware game is geared toward use in my next RPG, which will be commercial. And I promise, come hell or high water, this game will get finished. All core game mechanics are done, and it all works properly.



Come see the WIP!

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Chenak
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 17:35
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According to josh you have to use meshes to make curved surfaces, a real pain really but he's working on making it better apparently.

I mainly model characters so the stuff you need should be okay What poly counts are you aiming for?

Yer my animation method is usually bone animation, I can make limb based stuff but they usually look worse. As far as I know Dbpro handles bones the same way as limbs, so if you're using limbs to animate you should get the same effect.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 18:02 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 21:37
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Quote: "According to josh you have to use meshes to make curved surfaces"

Damn him. I really want an arch there. I'd model it as a mesh, but I don't think it would jive perfectly with the brushes right next to it, especially when I lightmapped it. Hmm...

Quote: "What poly counts are you aiming for?"

Around 1500, 2000 max, ideally. Of course, there's no absolute rule, it depends on the situation.




Come see the WIP!

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 21:38 Edited at: 21st Jul 2006 21:41
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A couple new pictures. I've done a ton of work, but it doesn't really feel like it. I've been focusing on the details. The place needs more personality.





Once I drop it in the engine, I'll be able to fill it with water. That will be awesome.




Come see the WIP!

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Alvarus
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 23:42
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Hey Cash Curtis II, those interiors are looking fantastic! I really like the lighting.


WIP Thread:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=80964&b=8
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Oddmind
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Posted: 21st Jul 2006 23:48
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sorry i havent read around much in a while but how are you making your lightmaps?

Cshop is giving me really low quality lightmaps with orange and yellow circles... looks ugly.


everything looks super great.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 07:35
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Sorry i didnt read every post, but, are you planning to sell it, or is it going to be a "free" game? Amazing either way!

Did you ever dream of creating a professional 3d game, easily, and fast? Game Developer
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 10:01 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2006 06:59
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I'm re-posting some of the most recent stuff here so that this page won't be empty. There will be more soon...

Bath House Reception Area



Bath Entrance


My arch is a bit screwed up. I'll probably put a rectangular bricked entrance in its place. Too bad...

Bath area


Not finished, of course. I'm giving it the personal touch now. Sadly, I can't show the coolest parts, as it would spoil the game for all of you.

Cloth Video

Dynamic Cloth Video, 2.77 MB



I'll integrate the cloth into the engine as soon as I get some more modeling done. It will be easier, as I've already written all the code. It will be similar to my doors.

****************************


Quote: "Hey Cash Curtis II, those interiors are looking fantastic! I really like the lighting."

Quote: "sorry i havent read around much in a while but how are you making your lightmaps?
Cshop is giving me really low quality lightmaps with orange and yellow circles... looks ugly.
everything looks super great."

Thanks guys! Lightmapping sure does bring a game to a whole new level. I'm using 3D World Studio. It's a great program. If you are happy with Cshop and don't want to shell out the money for that, then DarkLights should be able to give you better results. It looks like a good piece of software.

Quote: "Sorry i didnt read every post, but, are you planning to sell it, or is it going to be a "free" game? Amazing either way!"

This game will be free. It's designed mainly to showcase my RPG engine. However, I'm gearing all of the media and game elements to be portable to my next game, which will be commercial.




Come see the WIP!
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Matt G
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 11:30
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I know its probally just a temporary texture for your cloth, but if not, its looks really wrong having the light and shadows baked on to the texture, especially for dynamic cloth. The rest looks really good, I'm impressed.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 15:49 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2006 15:50
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Quote: "I know its probally just a temporary texture for your cloth, but if not, its looks really wrong having the light and shadows baked on to the texture, especially for dynamic cloth."

You are 1000 percent correct, in both regards. That texture just happens to be part of an example that I used as my starting point for my dynamic cloth. Good observation. I will definitely be using better looking cloth textures for my curtains. Glad you like everything!




Come see the WIP!
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Wiggett
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 16:23
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uhh i didn't see any orcs, i said they were classy cause of the look of their huts, snazzy indeed!!

Syndicate remastered: Corporate persuasion through urban violence.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 16:41 Edited at: 24th Jul 2006 09:42
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Here's some orcs for you...



I've added more characters, but I'll save them until I have more done.




Come see the WIP!

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Wiggett
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 16:56
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oh...

those ARE some classy orcs. good job

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Oddmind
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 18:24
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I like me some orcs.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Chenak
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 00:16 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2006 00:17
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Done a basic mesh of the female healer, 1603 polies at the moment but i can get it down to around 1k hopefully. Needs a bit more work but getting there

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 01:09 Edited at: 24th Jul 2006 09:43
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Looking very nice! I saw that other girl that you did, who I must say was excellent. One of the few examples of a real female I've ever seen done in 3D.

I can't wait to see this finished!


Come see the WIP!

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 09:46
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Quote: "This game will be free. It's designed mainly to showcase my RPG engine. However, I'm gearing all of the media and game elements to be portable to my next game, which will be commercial."

I like that news! I'm glad to see such a long game for showcase! All the others ive seen are about 5 minutes...

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 24th Jul 2006 09:59 Edited at: 25th Jul 2006 04:54
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Okay, the bath house is finished. Final build, final lightmapping. The part that always seems to take the longest is the final cleanup - deleting of unecessary backfaces, fixing all of the geometry oddities, etc. Also subdividing and setting up the geometry to work correctly in the game is an annoying pain.







I'm going to take the rest of the week off from this. It's time for finals, and I have a couple nasty tests to tkae, in addition to a term paper I haven't even started. I can't seem to do homework at all while I'm working on this game. It's sucking me dry. In a good way though...

@Chenak -
Like I said before, looking incredible. I really appreciate you helping me with this. Not only is it going to save me a ton of time, but your work is fantastic. Shoot me an e-mail at my address below so that we can talk about it some more. One nice opportunity I see is that you could put together a model pack to sell. DarkMatter models are missing one huge thing - regular people. No game is complete without some civilians, especially an RPG. I can be your first customer, and in addition your work can be showcased in this game and my next commercial RPG. She's looking great as the healer. Of course, the bar maid and bath girls will be a lot of fun to add to the game.

If you got that model down to 1k, that would just make my day.

@DB user 2006+ -
It will be pretty short by RPG standards. But, I want a full game, even if it is a short one. Having a story has helped focus my RPG engine development. In order to accomplish a specific thing, I create a flexible scripting system that actually lets me accomplish a lot more.

I realized, I never posted the story into. It's short, but it's what this whole thing is about...

***********************************************************

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Geisha House Story Introduction




Well, more next week. I'll have the house installed in the game along with the curtains. Enjoy!


Come see the WIP!

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 25th Jul 2006 02:09
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I'm just going to say: Great work! Very good work, done properly!

I always check this thread, just don't post in it. It's one of the very few I do watch though.

[ I watched Memoirs of A Geisha again today which is what reminded me I really had to post in Cash's thread!!! ]

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Oddmind
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Posted: 25th Jul 2006 07:46
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awesome that room is really coming to life, it looks like you have a normal/bump map on that post?

I was wondering, is there a way you can get exported cshop/3dws maps to have normal maps...

also the purple couch is... FAB!! >

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Chenak
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Posted: 25th Jul 2006 16:24 Edited at: 25th Jul 2006 16:35
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Cheers Cash

Your project is looking absolutely fantastic

I was thinking of making a pack a while ago, but had to stop for a bit cause of work. Sounds quite interesting though. A lotta work but it will prolly be worth it

Remade the healer, has 944 polies now might add one or two details to get it to exactly 1000 hehe. I'll do some uvmapping and animation if you're happy with the mesh.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 25th Jul 2006 18:52 Edited at: 25th Jul 2006 18:53
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@Drew -
I always enjoy when you post. Somehow, it makes my project feel a little more legitimate. Hopefully I'll have something for you to play very soon!

@Oddmind -
Quote: "awesome that room is really coming to life, it looks like you have a normal/bump map on that post?"

Yeah, it's my favorite building I've done so far. The original building wasn't really suitable at all for this. That post sure looks bumpmapped, doesn't it? Really, it's just a regular texture. It looks like that because it's a photo of some real tile and the shadows are already part of the picture. Very nice effect with no hardware cost.

Quote: "I was wondering, is there a way you can get exported cshop/3dws maps to have normal maps..."

Not that I know of. However, I think that the maps not having normals isn't really a bad thing. After you've lightmapped the level and import it into DBP, if you place dynamic hardware lights everywhere where there is a lightmapping light, game models will be lit correctly. The effect is amazing - I saw a video of Fallout's in which he is doing this. It looks like the hardware lights are lighting the map, when in fact they're only lighting the models in the map. It would produce an odd effect if the map had normals.

Quote: "also the purple couch is... FAB!! >"

Haha. I didn't make it, sadly. I jacked it from Josh K's modern house and retextured it. I usually like to make my own stuff, but it was already done and it looked good.

@Chenak -
That model looks great, and at 944 polygons is simply amazing. I sure can't wait to see her UV mapped and animated.

Your models will really add to this game. I can't wait to see them in action

Well, I shouldn't be doing any work, but I am. Adding a basement to a building has been a huge pain, but I've almost got it worked out. I'm going to try and post some new screenshots tonight, but I'm lightmapping at the moment and might run out of time.

Well, if not tonight, then soon!


Come see the WIP!
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Oddmind
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Posted: 25th Jul 2006 20:26
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ah your right. Yea fallouts vid was very cool, couldnt get over it.

@Chenak - the shoulders seem a bit wide for a female, now that I look back, it seems all of the upper torso is a bit masculine.

other than that It looks great .

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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 26th Jul 2006 05:02
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I vote for keeping the shoulders and torso as is. Reminds me of my girl, who coincidentally is from Cash's turf, Okinawa.
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Oddmind
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Posted: 26th Jul 2006 05:58 Edited at: 26th Jul 2006 06:10
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thats quite strange as asian women usually are very thin in the upper torso.

You dont have to change it if you dont want to but I was just pointing out what didnt seem right to me. Maybe my anatomy isnt up to par.

no, here is some references. Pay attention to the part of the back right under where the arm connects to the torso, and shoulder width is a bit large as well.



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