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FPSC Classic Product Chat / V120 Public Beta 18 (RC)

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Flatlander
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 19:50
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Starmind, I'll download your fpm when I get home. I able to get on the forums but I don't have my laptop or even a flashdrive with me.

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 21:13 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2012 21:20
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@Starmind.

I'll also check this out in the morning.

Could you let me know your lightmapping setting please?

*Edit*

This built for me without issue at 556mb (high I agree but within the expected range for FPSC).

SC
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starmind 001
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Posted: 24th Nov 2012 03:15
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Here is the latest sample I tried. Keep in mind I reduced everything down from what I did for beyond life. I even went so far as to have no lightmapping.


Also I know this is a dumb question but why is the camera now a bobble head?

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 24th Nov 2012 20:27
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@Starmind.

I've run a number of tests and certainly can't cause a crash with your supplied FPM either with default, or your lightmap settings.

Do you have other software running alongside FPSC?

Secondly, I'm not seeing a 'bobble head' effect.

Does anyone else these issues? If so, that might shed a little more light on Starmind's problems and allow me to investigate further.
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bruce3371
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Posted: 24th Nov 2012 23:31 Edited at: 24th Nov 2012 23:33
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Regarding the 'bobble head effect' I've noticed that the view bob that occurs when the player-character is walking/running, continues after the player-character movement has stopped, and it does kind of remind me of a bobble head!!

I'll do some further testing, and if it still occurs, I'll provide an fpm file for you to look at.

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ncmako
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 00:59
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@SC
Yes I've noticed the bobbing also. GreenDixy was the first to post about it. It's not very noticeable in a larger area, but in a confined space or a long narrow hallway the effect is very noticeable.
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starmind 001
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 01:27
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If you look at my video your can see the bobble head effect. As for the build I am seeing that even on previous versions of fpsc that I am crashing at the begin lightmapping stage. So after a few tweaks I am seeing that I have some hardware failing in my computer. Also my virus software is causing part of the crashes. If I disable it I can build up to calculating object lighting. I will try again here in a few with some more tweaks.




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Conjured
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 00:33
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Thanks TGC!
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starmind 001
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 09:09
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Ok I have got it to build, but what was causing the problem was "Automatic floor" in the build settings. It was taking a simple level of 20 something meshes and making over 8000. I have uploaded the finish build for you to see the bobble head effect. Thanks for all your help at my mistake.

I don't think I have ever checked that box before, but it was the problem. Pehaps maybe look into why and what it is that is causing that problem with lightmapping. If automatic flooring is not needed then why not remove it and put something there that is needed like a debug or step through build for those of us that like to see the code and what is causing the problems. Also help out with beta testing where it prints out a log, instead of always asking for us to send a fpm. I think a log would be more beneficial. My thoughts only.

Now for that bobble head.

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HarryWever
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 20:11 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 20:11
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Hello,

I have some strange things going on now.
If i select the stock caracter scfi eiko, or wwII sniper.
They shoot at a very rapid pace.. if i get closer the slower it get.
See the video i attach.
I change everything, the script the firerate etc etc .. but nothing works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soMpWER1d1A&feature=youtu.be

Harry
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Flatlander
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 20:51
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@HarryWever

It has been fixed for the next beta or the next official release.

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HarryWever
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 21:57
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Oke thank you..

Harry
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HarryWever
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Posted: 29th Nov 2012 16:44 Edited at: 29th Nov 2012 17:28
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I got another thing
As you see in the video i placed waypoints for the character, but the chracter stands still, and then suddenly is far away..
I use all stock character, script is pace, and the stock shoot script.
I placed the character to the other end of the way ponits,, but the same problem. i looks also like the chracter is sinked in the ground.
It is annoying....
The link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYCUg49plVM&feature=plcp
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Flatlander
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Posted: 29th Nov 2012 21:17 Edited at: 29th Nov 2012 21:18
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Hmmm? I use way points all the time and have not had any issues with them. Sorry I can't be of much help here. It might be in how you are using the script. I don't believe it is a bug with FPSC.

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HarryWever
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Posted: 30th Nov 2012 00:02
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I have tried as main script pace or pace10.
And the standaard shoot script or shoot 10 i believe.
Also tried the script in the osfpsguide made by nickydude.
But with the same effect.. next i run the cleaner several times,
But still the same effect.

Is there a different way then to use the scripts?
Harry
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Flatlander
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Posted: 30th Nov 2012 00:42
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Are you using the stock waypoint script? It would be used in the main. The name of the script is actually "follow.fpi" and it is in the "people" folder. Use this one if you haven't to see if it works correctly for you. Then from there it can be modified. Use it as a template.

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HarryWever
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Posted: 30th Nov 2012 10:54
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yep in the main script i use the stock follow, or pace script.
I tried the follow, and it seems to work, but when i add the command plrcanbeseen, or use the stockscript pace with that command in it. this is what happend see video.
Below the character is a white line that stops everytime and the character flies over the screen to a different waypoint location.

I also find several scripts here from other people, and try them, but with the same result

Well i don't really know what to do anymore.
It sucks. maybe it is my computer setup i don't know!!!.



Harry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywbgEA5V4XQ&feature=youtu.be
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2012 20:39
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Hi all,

For those who haven't noticed, Beta 6 is up for download.

We're hoping that this will prove to be a stable final release, addressing any problems users had with Beta 5.

As always, please post any issues here, supplying an FPM and an required scripts.

SC
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2012 20:39 Edited at: 4th Dec 2012 11:52
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*Edit*

Posted twice somehow!
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Flatlander
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2012 23:38
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Cartoon characters are working properly so I'm good to go.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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Design Runner
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 01:21
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This has also fixed all errors I was receiving in regards to compatibility, and random framerate drops.

Your signature has been erased by a mod, please reduce it to no larger than 600 x 120.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 07:24
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Glad to hear..

As I say, if anyone has any issues, please let us know so that we can address them as soon as possible.

It'll also be nice, if users could post if their problem has been fixed or they are finding improvements as these reports also help us to know that things have been fixed for everyone.

Enjoy

SC
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Fuzz
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 10:22
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I have the same bobble head issue as starmind.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 11:28
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Quote: "I have the same bobble head issue as starmind."


Same here. Good performance boost and slightly reduced memory consumption comapred to the first betas, but this bobbling makes it unusable.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 11:55
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Quote: "I have the same bobble head issue as starmind."


The problem I have here is that I'm simply not seeing the effect. Even in Starmind's video. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but to me bobble head means uncontrolable wobbling or shaking and I'm don't see it.

I understand that this has been reported more than once, so if someone can upload a video showing the issue clearly, or an FPM where this effect is apparent, I'll obviously be happy to look at it.

SC
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Ertlov
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 12:18
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Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 12:46
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@Ertlov

Thank you, that demonstrates the problem clearly.

I'll look into it.

SC
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uman
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 16:44 Edited at: 4th Dec 2012 16:57
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Beta 6.

I still cant run compiled level game.exe's which exit at level loading bar back to main screen. Happens with all large complex levels which contain large volumes of non stock content. No backwards compatibility for me. Some work some dont.

Dark AI Characters can walk straight through world object static walls of buildings and at the other end of the scale get stuck on static entities e.g. If collide with static vehicle entity, effectively have no way of obstacle avoidance and get trapped in them/by them.

Characters on Paths can behave erratically with normal speeds, then sometimes highly speeded up movements at path corners. i.e. dramatic speed jump around corners, moving around another character or entity (no smoothing). Larger entities like a vehicle on path no longer follow path at corners and do not turn to follow path but continue forward movement leave the path in favour of forward movement - can then enter buildings off path route before re-appearing back on path at later location.

Characters in some instances leave their blog shadow behind on the floor for some considerable time before it fades way.

I cant use Shaders on as I get the past famous Large Blob Shadow effect following me everywhere I go and projecting onto world objects - and cant find a fix for it. Shaders mess up on many entities for me too and hash the visual quality to badly unacceptable levels so they are not an option fort me.

Lighting on for me messes up my own Terrain entities - they become self illuminated? where they did not in earlier versions some time back - no idea why.

Not checked Beta 6 out in depth as I dont really use FPSC but do test each version to see if its improved and usable for me.

Just a few things I notice quickly as I could not miss them.

No need to worry about any of it on my behalf as I dont see me picking up FPSC for making games again at the moment as is - just reporting what I find.

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 20:51
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@Uman

Wow!

I do know that you have had problems in the past, and as you say you do use a lot of custom media, which isn't an excuse I know, but could well be a reason.

I really would like to help you out, but obviously the media might be an issue.

Maybe you could send me some additional information, maybe a .exe so I can witness the issues if you don't want to share media. It would also be helpful if you could let me know your system specs. Feel free to email me if you wish.

SC
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starmind 001
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 22:03
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Yes the bobble head is there, but if you crouch down the effect is gone, It seems more like a collision issue, like walking into the wall. sometimes it is there while other times it shakes for no reason. Also if you look up when the effect starts it quits.

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uman
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 22:24
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Hi Scene Commander,

System Specs :

OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name COMPUTER2
System Manufacturer Advent
System Model MS-7728
System Type x64-based PC
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2310 CPU @ 2.90GHz, 2901 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. E7728-ADVENT.207, 15/06/2011
SMBIOS Version 2.6
Windows Directory C:\Windows
System Directory C:\Windows\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale United Kingdom
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "6.1.7601.17514"
User Name COMPUTER2\Peter Coleman
Time Zone GMT Standard Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB
Total Physical Memory 7.98 GB
Available Physical Memory 5.79 GB
Total Virtual Memory 16.0 GB
Available Virtual Memory 13.6 GB
Page File Space 7.98 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

**********************************

Name NVIDIA GeForce GT 530
PNP Device ID PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0DE5&SUBSYS_230A1462&REV_A1\4&1E710833&0&0008
Adapter Type GeForce GT 530, NVIDIA compatible
Adapter Description NVIDIA GeForce GT 530
Adapter RAM 1,023.69 MB (1,073,414,144 bytes)
Installed Drivers nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver Version 9.18.13.697
INF File oem26.inf (Section024 section)
Color Planes Not Available
Color Table Entries 4294967296
Resolution 1280 x 1024 x 75 hertz
Bits/Pixel 32
Memory Address 0xFA000000-0xFB0FFFFF
Memory Address 0xD0000000-0xD9FFFFFF
Memory Address 0xD8000000-0xD9FFFFFF
I/O Port 0x0000E000-0x0000EFFF
IRQ Channel IRQ 16
I/O Port 0x000003B0-0x000003BB
I/O Port 0x000003C0-0x000003DF
Memory Address 0xA0000-0xBFFFF
Driver c:\windows\system32\drivers\nvlddmkm.sys (9.18.13.697, 12.82 MB (13,443,944 bytes), 10/10/2012 22:22)


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Dar13
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Posted: 4th Dec 2012 23:01
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Quote: "Yes the bobble head is there, but if you crouch down the effect is gone, It seems more like a collision issue, like walking into the wall. sometimes it is there while other times it shakes for no reason. Also if you look up when the effect starts it quits."

It sounds and looks like a physics issue. For some reason the character controller (or whatever is acting as a character controller in FPSC) is penetrating the floor and is rebounding back like it's supposed to.

Follow WTLD's progress on Twitter
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 01:08
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Can someone tell me why this thread is titled "V120 Public Beta 5" (i.e. why the 5)? (and probably as well )
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Flatlander
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 01:09 Edited at: 5th Dec 2012 01:10
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Because I suppose a mod or Lee hasn't changed the "5" to a "6" yet.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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uman
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 19:05 Edited at: 5th Dec 2012 19:07
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Heres a Video of one of the few levels I have that I can actually compile to .exe which show numerous errors I am seeing in game relating largely to Characters/entities and pathfinding though there are numerous other errors not easily seen here as some can appear erratically as they do in FPSC. e.g characters spawning half in the floor.

If you look closely you can see at the start an enemy on a roof top who is frozen but eventually activates. Always active is on.

This is quite a long video. If you watch it all you can see many instances of these behaviours - You can see erratic blob shadows left on floors, characters and vehicle walking/moving through walls and not following their paths available, re-appearing through walls and out of nowhere, vehicle leaving path and getting stuck in building, then dissappear and magically re-appear, characters following paths backwards, sideways and every which way you choose. Paths themselves can be a problem in editor and some cant be deleted.

You get the point, what might be possibly become a good demo or game level is degraded to a hopeless mess.

http://youtu.be/TeLERKZyzmk

Best if you enlarge to Full Screen perhaps to get a good view


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BlackFox
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 19:36
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Nice video Uman. We saw exactly what your issues were and hope they can get sorted. It would be a shame to see your development slip into the cracks.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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uman
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 20:07
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It slipped into the cracks a long time (years) ago otherwise my levels would not be looking like that by now Not updated them much in some years.

No worries actually. I am just reporting what I see and find. It might be nice to get something working fully one day but I am not going to hold my breath.

I will wait for Reloaded and see what mess I can make of that

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rolfy
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 21:55 Edited at: 5th Dec 2012 21:58
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Thing is that even more recently created levels wont load properly and cause errors, you have to build from scratch with each new release.
I am not surprised your getting all those issues if your builds are as old as you say.
Even the shaders have been updated long ago and your likely referencing the old ones.
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Flatlander
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 22:02 Edited at: 5th Dec 2012 22:04
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Most all of my levels from years past 2007-2010 or so do not work. Everything had to be redone from scratch. Things didn't start getting better until about version 1.18. Maybe v1.19. I've been able to use my builds for sure from v1.19.

I'm not sure but I think that's why Blackfox never left v1.17. I'm sure he'll respond to this. I know there were other reasons as well.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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BlackFox
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 22:06 Edited at: 5th Dec 2012 22:23
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We ran tests ourselves using v1.16-1.20 with levels created. If they are just segment ground and model entities (such as buildings, walls, crates) and have no scripting attached, are not characters, using waypoints, etc then they work just fine. As soon as you try to load a level that has scripting with variables, shaders, water that is where the issues come into play. If I take a level in v1.20 that uses shaders, water, etc and go back to v1.17, I start getting lag issues, etc. I can use just the segments/models only and have to strip out scripting, save, then open in v1.17 and apply new scripting. There should be no issues if it is a segment ground and crate- nothing should change from version to version if it is just a box sitting on the ground.

I'm still in v1.17 and never have any of the issues that get reported.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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rolfy
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Posted: 5th Dec 2012 22:14 Edited at: 5th Dec 2012 22:18
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It mostly depends on whats been changed in the code and whats in the build, in Uman's case I would first try swapping out all the shaders on the characters to those in ps2 folder or disable newblosser shaders and reload the scripts, if that doesn't help I would replace all the characters as it looks like scenery is working fine.
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uman
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 01:46 Edited at: 6th Dec 2012 01:47
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I dont have Shaders turned on for editor test or compile to .exe

I don't use Shaders. Any I have applied and tested in the past are indeed Shader 2 since they have been available.

Not that I know what Shaders have got to do with Characters walking through walls though I am well aware of the affects of various issues with FPSC?

Every Character and dynamic entity seen and there are quite a number all attached to numerous paths and a few non path following Characters too are all active throughout the level all at one time with no loading and unloading and no spawning only at game start. Anyone else have an outdoor level with similar equivalent content in volume and numbers of Characters and entities following paths all at once as in the Video that behaves correctly using these latest betas That can show correct behaviours without issue? Not that it matters.....

I have no intention of rebuilding levels. I would prefer to start from scratch as a better option but not with this current engine. I could spend six months building 1 level and find it turns out exactly the same. I would not expect it to reach my own personal aspirations so will skip those options. I'll keep it on the shelf and leave it to you guys to develop with it.

I will look at Reloaded and see what it offers when it comes around if I'm still around
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Flatlander
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 03:10
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Quote: "I will look at Reloaded and see what it offers when it comes around if I'm still around "


I have the same feeling. I wish I had a Shakespearean quote at the tip of my tongue regarding that. He was quite the bard when it came to the human spirit.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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BlackFox
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 03:30
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Quote: "I wish I had a Shakespearean quote at the tip of my tongue regarding that."


I've always been partial to...

All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.

Since it is FPSC, substitute exit for Win Zone, entrances for Player Marker.

---

Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once.

Of course, one needs to use the coward.fpi script for this to take effect.


There's no problem that can't be solved without applying a little scripting.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 07:43
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I would that thought "Let slip the dogs of war" would have been the more appropraite.

@Uman,

Thanks for the video, it does explain some things. Our systems specs are fairly similar and I've also built a fairly similar map to yours using many waypoints and I've not had these issues. I'll run some tests today based around your map design to see if I can pinpoint an easily replicatable repeat of the problems as it's a shame that you are having such difficulties and I think it's worth some time to investigate.

SC
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Ertlov
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 13:03
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Scene, any progress on the bobblehead issue?

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 18:20
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@Ertlov,

I've not actually looked at this yet as I had something to finish first and I wanted to run something by Lee first.

I'll be looking at it tomorrow. As I'm finding it hard to replicate, do you recall which version of V120 it first started happening for you?

SC
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Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Location: The Flatlands
Posted: 6th Dec 2012 22:26 Edited at: 6th Dec 2012 22:45
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@Ertlov, Unfortunately it doesn't happen to me or at least I can't see it like you apparently can. It might be my old eyes but I can't believe SC is as old as I am.

Addendum:

Erlov

I just noticed that the playerborble that sets the camera position and does other things is all over the place within the code. I'm sure there are just a few places where actual movement is done. However, I'm thinking that if you can let SC know where you notice it the most and what exactly is going on or what you are doing at the time he might be able to narrow it down.

THEORY - you know everything but nothing works. PRACTICE - when everything works but don't know why. For me, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and I don't know why.
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rolfy
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Posted: 7th Dec 2012 01:40
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I too have been seeing the bobble, I am pretty sure I first noticed with beta4 it became more severe with beta5 and is a little less noticeable with beta6. It mostly seems to continue after stopping walking.
It will get more severe if colliding with a character.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 8th Dec 2012 07:42
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Hi all,

I've been looking at the 'bobble head' effect issue and I'm finding it very hard to replicate. (Which in turn is making it hard to fix).

Can someone who is having the problem please upload an FPM using media from any offical model pack which demonstrates it? I can then compare the results on my test machines against the user experience.

Many thanks,

SC
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