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Geek Culture / Xbox One

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 25th May 2013 22:45 Edited at: 25th May 2013 22:47
Well yes, I know that, but I was wondering if there any better articles on what its specs are, how it handles used games, etc.,. I'm more interested in the PS4 than the One at the moment.

The thing Microsoft posted the other day has certainly enlightened me on just how many people hate the idea of the One. The backlash is overwhelming. Microsoft has to be scared right now.

EDIT: Wow, my hands typed the wrong words... should be better now...

mr Handy
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Posted: 25th May 2013 23:21
I dislike vent stripes on the top. We can drop bread crumbs, water, hair, anything inside... and we will drop, I am sure.

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TheComet
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Posted: 25th May 2013 23:58
PS4 hasn't done their reveal yet, they're waiting until E3.

Now, prepare for the ultimate informative post on the Xbox One.

Dylan Jordan did a great job on summarizing everything. Here's a copy/paste of his comment:



Alright, if you’re a consumer and you’re considering picking up the new Xbox One console, then please, take a moment to listen to me. Before we begin, no, I am not a fanboy or a hater. I have no console Bias. I have a PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, and a Gaming PC. Each has their pros and cons but now onto business.

DO NOT BUY AN XBOX ONE. Why? See the reasons below:

Xbox Requires an internet connection. Here’s how it works: Every 24 hours your Xbox will try to connect to Microsoft’s servers for verification. If it is unable to connect, sucks to be you. You’re blocked from playing even single player games until it can connect.

Source: http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

Do you like renting games, lending them to a friend, or even borrowing them from a friend? No longer possible. Every Xbox One game you get must be registered to your Xbox live account to be played. After that point it will only work for you. No one else can use it unless they pay a fee. Essentially it works like this. You pick up a used Xbox One game from somewhere or someone, pop it into your console. The system verifies it’s been registered to your account. Uh-oh, it isn’t! In order to play it, you have to pay Microsoft a fee, which is currently slated to be full retail price. Doesn’t matter how scratched up it is or how cheap you got it at gamestop or from a friend. You aren’t just buying the physical copies anymore. You’re paying Microsoft for a LICENSE to be allowed to play that game.

It is worth mentioning Microsoft is exploring ways for you to trade in and resell your used games. This is rumored to mean that you can sell your digital license to play the game (registration) back to microsoft, likely for microsoft points. You can then trade in the game at gamespot for some cash if you like. Either way, as it currently stands, the new owner would still have to pay a fee on top of the price of actually buying the physical copy.

Source: http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-fee-for-buying-used-games-full-retail-price/

Is it worth mentioning that Microsoft if shafting Indie Developers as well? Where as on Playstation Network or (whatever the Wii has) Indie Developers can self publish their content easily. Playstation even encourages this. Microsoft however forces these Indie Devs to enter publishing deals with them to be allowed to market their content. You don’t go through them, you don’t get to sell what you developed.

Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/indie-devs-cant-self-publish-on-xbox-one

I’m not quite done yet! Now, I’m sure you heard a lot about “TV TV TV TV SPORTS TV TV SPORTS SPORTS TV.” Yes, the Xbox is slated to be able to stream live tv, live sports, etc. So let me ask you this. You obviously already have something like cable or DirecTV. Do you really want to shell out hundreds of dollars more and pay a monthly subscription fee to have another television provider? Yes, I said hundreds of dollars, and I don’t mean the cost of the console. To view live TV from the Xbox you are required to purchase ANOTHER separate device for it to work. Why would you even consider shelling out more money for something you already have anyway? Even if you didn’t, DirecTV is cheaper. Or you could even subscribe you Hulu.com and watch live tv on your computer. FOR MUCH CHEAPER. You essentially have to buy another cable box if you don’t have one. And if you do… what do you need the Xbox One for?

Source: http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-live-tv-available-in-us-only-at-launch-requires-separate-device/

So far we’ve discovered that the Xbox One is not really a gaming console, at least… not a consumer friendly gaming console. It’s being marketed as an all-in-one home entertainment system. Something to replace all of the other devices in your house. But there are drawbacks even to that. Put on your tin foil hats for this part folks. Take from it what you will, all I’ll say is… possibilities…

The Xbox One’s features will not function unless the Kinect is plugged in and active. This is not an optional piece anymore.

Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-will-not-function-without-kinect-attached

So imagine your Kinect piece breaks? Tough luck, no more Xbox for you. But you know what’s worse?

Pay attention, because this is important. The Kinect is always watching. Always listening. Even when the system is off.

Yes. One of the ways to turn the system on is to audibly say: “Xbox On” while the system is off. The Kinect, which is always on, hears you and turns it on. Now this might seem like a cool feature, but did you know Microsoft patented a feature that would allow the Kinect’s camera (It’s no longer just a sensor, but a camera) to spy on you for the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America?) While they may not actually do this, it is actually possible for them to do this now. It has a camera, and a microphone. The Kinect is always on. It is ALWAYS listening, ALWAYS watching.

An idea has been tossed around that by using this feature, it will allows game developers and movie produces to set a limited amount of how many people can be allowed to view the entertainment. So as a hypothetical example, you and three friends are watching a movie, which is the maximum allowed. A fourth friend enters the room and the Kinect’s sensor registers the fourth individual. The movie stops and you a prompted to pay a fee so that the extra individual may also view the film. Again, that is NOT currently the case, but these are the ideas currently being tossed around with the system’s current capabilities.

Source for listening: http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4352596/the-xbox-one-is-always-listening

Source of spying: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa

Now, just two more things and I’ll be done here!

This isn’t really a good or bad thing, but it’s annoying. It also explains how they can prevent you from playing a used game if you didn’t pay their fee. Xbox one no longer plays games off the discs, you HAVE to install them to the hard-drive in order to play them. I believe PS3 also has you do this (on a number of games but not always it seems), except that PS3 isn’t trying to Nickle and Dime you at every corner. It also seems according to this article there is something related to the Online portion at the beginning of this post. The option is there for Developers to require the Xbox to always be online to play their particular game. Well, it seems PC gamers and console gamers have one thing in common now… DRM.

(At least pirates on PC can bypass DRM easily. Not an option for Consoles.)

Source: http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4352314/xbox-one-hard-drive-game-installs

And last but not least, another annoyance… Xbox One will not be compatible with any and all current headsets. Nope, companies will either have to make new headsets altogether specifically for the Xbox One, and they have to adhere to what Microsoft wants. Look forward to price gouging.

Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-incompatible-with-current-gaming-headsets

Oh, one more thing… If you have an Xbox 360, don’t get rid of it. Why? Well if you want to keep playing your old 360 games you’ll need it. The Xbox One isn’t backwards compatible. At all. Not only that, but President of Microsoft’s Xbox Division Don Mattrick insults the very notion of backwards compatibility! He calls it: “Backwards thinking.”

Source: http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4350662/new-xbox-has-no-backwards-compatibilty

Source of insult: http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/22/4355984/xbox-one-backward-compatibility-backwards-thinking-don-mattrick


That is all I have to say currently folks, and I hope you took the time to read this far. I’ll conclude with the following… please… PLEASE do not buy this console. Paying for this supports greedy and anti-consumer business practices. Speak with your wallet, and pass up the Xbox One. No matter what games it might have that you want, even if they are exclusive. Do the right thing and make a statement. Refuse to be nickle and dimed like this. Refuse to be seen as a mindless consumer who will buy anything tossed to them.

We won’t know much else until after E3, but as it stands now, the PS4 or a decent gaming PC is the best way to go.

If you are willing to do so, please spread this post around. Liking is not even remotely necessary, but do please share it if you agree with and acknowledge what you’ve read here. The more people know, the fewer of them waste their money.

Thank you, kindly.

~Dylan Jordan

(Originally posted on Facebook, reblogged on tumblr and now copied to TGC. He brings up many valid points. Mind you, I haven’t been a fan of Xbox in a long time and I will most likely get a PS4. But this confirms further for me that I won’t be getting an Xbox one any time in the foreseeable future.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I *hope* the following is OK to post. WARNING: There is some bad language in this video, but it brings some very good, constructive points about the Xbox One and the overall console war, plus he speaks my mind directly. If a moderator does not agree with the content of the video, feel free to remove it from this post.

>>> The Video <<<

TheComet


Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, but Today is a Gift. That is why it is called "present".
Jeku
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Posted: 26th May 2013 09:07 Edited at: 26th May 2013 09:07
I'll inevitably buy both PS4 and Xbox One on their respective launch days, because that's the way I am. I am NOT impressed by the lack of backwards compatibility, especially with the Xbox Live Arcade games. This decision will stop me from buying a single XBLA game from here until the launch of Xbox One. What would be the point if I can't play them on the new system anyway?


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
Matty H
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Posted: 26th May 2013 12:22 Edited at: 26th May 2013 12:22
If even half the stuff TheComet quoted is true then this will be the most user unfriendly piece of hardware ever.

I reserve judgement until all this stuff is official, the media sometimes have the habit of making stuff up when real facts are not available.

Even so, the very premise of it providing you with your TV needs is very risky and could backfire hugely.

mr Handy
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Posted: 26th May 2013 23:17
Quote: "Pay attention, because this is important. The Kinect is always watching. Always listening. Even when the system is off."

Umm, I am the only guy who likes to turn off surge protector? Or there is a battery inside?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th May 2013 23:35
I suggested the same thing - just unplug the darn thing.

If they put a battery in it, that would be reason enough for me to not get a One at all, as that would be terrifying!

However, if the thing about having to connect to the internet is true as well, then I'm not getting it regardless. My connection (although it's quite a good one) sometimes goes out for general wire maintenance in my town. It seems to happen once every few months, when Charter (my provider) has to replace their wire boxes due to weather/animal damage. I want to be able to play games, especially when I don't have an internet connection, because what the heck else would I do?!

I'm starting to automatically become a Sony lover right now...

Quik
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Posted: 26th May 2013 23:43
buut we dont know if sony will do any better....

if they stay out of internet though - and dont have a double pricetag to xbox, i might consider it - but you know... we dont really know anything as of yet - I might just buy a PS3 instead~



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th May 2013 01:02
True, Sony are keeping eerily quiet (though we do know the PS4 will also not be backwards compatible with any previous-gen games), but at least they won't have a camera turned on at all times, pointing at you...

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 27th May 2013 01:09
I have an idea! Simply place a picture of your room in front of the Kinect's camera and it won't know when people enter the room. If the rumor that it will limit the number of people who can watch a show is true, that'd be a way to circumvent it.
Matty H
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Posted: 27th May 2013 01:12 Edited at: 27th May 2013 01:15
I'm going to predict that an internet login will not be required every day. In the article TheComet linked to they say this is one possible scenario, after the response this is getting it would be suicide to have that around its neck.

I think they will relax that to once a week or can it all together. They can't be that dumb.

EDIT: Also, these articles are all fighting for our attention so don't be surprised if much of what is said is taken out of context for the sake of a headline.

TheComet
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Posted: 27th May 2013 01:15
Again, Sony is waiting until E3 before they say anything. You'll know then.

http://www.e3expo.com/

Obviously Sony is staying quiet. They are sensible enough to wait until they are ready.

TheComet


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Quik
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Posted: 27th May 2013 01:31
Quote: "I think they will relax that to once a week or can it all together. They can't be that dumb."



... it's still ruined if you ask me.



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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th May 2013 01:33
^Agreed, Quik. No console should ever HAVE to be online in order to work, even if it only is once a week. Using the internet on a games console should be an option, not a mandatory thing.

Quik
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Posted: 27th May 2013 01:58
I have internet for my PC... my console is merely a social - local thing, which I can bring along anywhere really...

which is kind of handicapped if it requires internet



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mr Handy
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Posted: 27th May 2013 11:48
So let's buy PSP and NDS! They are still normal consoles.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 27th May 2013 11:57 Edited at: 27th May 2013 13:22
Xbox YouHaveNoLife version

Quote: "Microsoft has patented a system that will give players achievements for watching television. Most likely, the company is preparing the ground for the announcement of the new service, available to future owners of the console Xbox One."


edit: sorry for double post!

edit 2:



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Mobiius
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Posted: 27th May 2013 20:49
All these comments however are based on unconfirmed information. Not one of these sources have been acknowledged by Microsoft. Even the one about requiring the internet every 24 hours was rebuffed by Microsoft stating "It is one possible scenario"

We should all wait until Microsoft has released the official information before jumping on the "Xbox will die, Sony FTW!" bandwagon.

But I admit that each and every one of these "unconfirmed rumours" are highly disturbing, but not enough to dissuade be from buying it.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 27th May 2013 20:55
Quote: ""Television viewing tends to be a passive experience for a viewer, without many opportunities for the viewer to engage or have interactive experiences with the presented content," the application's description reads. "To increase interactive viewing and encourage a user to watch one or more particular items of video content, awards and achievements may be tied to those items of video content.""

I've always despised "achievements" but this rubbish sounds like an April Fool's joke.

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Quik
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Posted: 27th May 2013 20:57
Quote: "I've always despised "achievements""



why?



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Libervurto
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Posted: 27th May 2013 21:17
Because they reward you for playing a game, which should be the reward in itself. "Achievements" are a cheap psychological tactic to exploit people with addictive tendencies.

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
Quik
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Posted: 27th May 2013 21:21
even achievements like "kill x boss in x way"?



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TheComet
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Posted: 27th May 2013 21:41 Edited at: 27th May 2013 21:43
Quote: "All these comments however are based on unconfirmed information. Not one of these sources have been acknowledged by Microsoft."


http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa

According to Microsoft vice president Phil Harrison:

Quote: "Q: Does Xbox One require an “always on” Internet connection?
A: No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet. We’re designing Xbox One to be your all-in-one entertainment system that is connected to the cloud and always ready. We are also designing it so you can play games and watch Blu-ray movies and live TV if you lose your connection."


@Mobiius - I have to say, I feel a little insulted by your comment, because I did supply links to valid sources confirmed by Microsoft.

I don't know how to interpret the answer to that question though.

TheComet


Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, but Today is a Gift. That is why it is called "present".
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th May 2013 22:03
The once-a-day connection thing has been confirmed, and that alone is enough reason not to buy a One, at least for me.

A lot of people are saying that Microsoft are being anti-consumer lately, and are failing gamers. The amount of negative responses on places like YouTube and facebook must be pretty terrifying for MS right now.

One of my favorite comments, the day of Microsoft's reveal: "Microsoft just sold a lot of PS4's today".

Matty H
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Posted: 27th May 2013 22:14 Edited at: 27th May 2013 22:15
Quote: "@Mobiius - I have to say, I feel a little insulted by your comment, because I did supply links to valid sources confirmed by Microsoft."


You should not feel insulted, Mobiius's comments were in no way insulting imo.

Quote: "Update: Sounds like things are a mess over at Microsoft. Now they're telling Polygon that Harrison's comments illustrate a "potential scenario."

"While Phil [Harrison] discussed many potential scenarios around games on Xbox One, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail," a Microsoft rep said. "There have been reports of a specific time period — those were discussions of potential scenarios, but we have not confirmed any details today, nor will we be."
"


I have read through the quotes from that link and they sound like they could easily be taken out of context. The media do this all the time to get a headline, I think everyone should be sceptical about the daily connection feature until it is a reality.

As I mentioned earlier, I really doubt they will go through with it, even if it was in their original plans.

mr Handy
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Posted: 27th May 2013 22:48 Edited at: 27th May 2013 22:53
Quote: "We are also designing it so you can play games and watch Blu-ray movies and live TV if you lose your connection."

What!? This is the most awesome feature that I've ever seen! I can watch my collection of bluray movies without a permanent internet connection! Unbelievable!

[throws the BBK bluray player in the window]
[running to the local store for Xbox One]

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Mobiius
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Posted: 28th May 2013 00:01
Here's some information from the same article you posted...
Quote: "Update: Sounds like things are a mess over at Microsoft. Now they're telling Polygon that Harrison's comments illustrate a "potential scenario.""


I meant no insult, nor was I replying to only one person. Merely pointing out that "the internet" is up in arms about a product which hasn't even been officially announced yet. Full details will be announced at E3, if after then all the rumours are proved true, then "the internet" can flail their arms about in a blind panic. lol

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 28th May 2013 01:02
lol at image

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 28th May 2013 04:52
Wii U sales have gone up by around 875%, ever since the reveal of the One.

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Posted: 28th May 2013 07:41 Edited at: 28th May 2013 08:28
Quote: "4gb - with 8gb being for those very dedicated - heck I have 8gb - on my slightly above average computer.

heck - my cousin had 8gb like 5 years ago on his gaming rig..
"


I have 16gb myself. My old PC had 8 and was barely enough for me.

Quote: " If the PC is CLOSE to it NOW, i mean the high end ones now - why on earth would it even be comparisable in 5 years?"

Umm, I'd say my year old PC is still ahead of the xbox one, so in no way is any console superior to the PC in terms of performance.


On the argument on whether or not the CPU is 64 bit or not, it is. The Jaguar architecture is 64-bit x86.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(microarchitecture)

The Radeon GPU is claimed at 1.8 teraflops, about half of a Radeon 7970.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/APU-Jaguar-PlayStation-Kabini-Temash,21229.html

So far, I'm not seeing a performance difference between xbox and ps4.

Dar13
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Posted: 29th May 2013 18:31
Quote: "So far, I'm not seeing a performance difference between xbox and ps4."

PS4 has 384 more shader processors, which puts it at your 1.8 TFLOPS number. The Xbox One's theoretical performance with its 768 shader cores tops out at 1.23 TFLOPS. That's quite a large performance difference.

Anandtech source.

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Posted: 29th May 2013 21:09
I have to admit, I'm going PS4 this time around unless Valve unleash the Kraken that is Steambox.

XBone simply will not function if it's Always Online, and I played the WiiU at Comicon this weekend...Rayman sucks now guys, the worst part being that the attendant was a lovely girl trying to convince us that it would be fun for parties. This being while we were confusedly dropping off roofs because apparently the Wiimote is now turned to the side and used like a normal button controller - cop-out IMO.

The tablet made a great appearance though by being unresponsive and laggy, or my mate just sucked. Either way, we missed a lot of moving ledges that required tablet input.

The Last Of Us demo we saw look sweet as hell, though. Destiny is also something I'm interested in, seeing as it's Bungie, after all. PS4 also hasn't revealed any binding internet demands, and since I'll be as unable to play my old 360 collection on it as I would be on the other two, I think it comes out on top...for now.

Ultimately, I might just not bother gaming anymore. Seriously, what is actually going on this time around? Do they have to cram so much peripheral crap into systems now to justify selling them? I miss simpler times when a PS2 was a prettier PS1 with DVD playback...

...Or Rareware. I miss Rarewar.
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Posted: 29th May 2013 21:11
Quote: "XBone"



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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th May 2013 00:26
I've seen it called that a few times now, I think it might be a "thing."
mr Handy
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Posted: 30th May 2013 00:28
And who owns it - xboner.

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Airslide
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Posted: 30th May 2013 08:02
Isn't the PS3 more powerful than the 360 on paper? Doesn't seem to have hurt sales.
The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 30th May 2013 13:15 Edited at: 30th May 2013 13:19
The Cell architecture used in the PS3 was quite a radical departure from traditional architectures. It was very expensive to develop for because it was a fair bit more complex to work with than the more traditional tri-core chip used in the Xbox.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell4_v2.html - this makes for an interesting read.

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Posted: 30th May 2013 18:10
I'm still sticking to the PS4. (not a fanboy or anything) One one thing that was the "deal-breaker" was that there is NO backwards compatibility, which I see as a issue since only 14 (or something like that) games are currently compatible with the Xbox One. PLus with the fact that you can give your games to other people, you have to buy it each time. As I read and heard about it, the Xbox One copy's the game to its HDD, and rendering the CD pretty useless (correct me if I'm wrong).

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Posted: 3rd Jun 2013 17:41 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2013 17:43
I'm not sold on either console so far, I have to say.

Neither the PS4, nor the Xbox One, brought any features / technical specifications that made me excited enough to run for my wallet and throw money at them.

The focus on "social" stuff that Sony is striving for isn't anything I've been waiting for, since I was pretty happy that at least consoles didn't go through the "Facebook" and what not hysteria, adding that stuff into every corner of the console and games.

I couldn't care less for all the TV stuff MS was shoving down my throat during the presentation either; if I want to watch sports or whatever else, I simply turn on my PC or TV and watch it on there.

Why would I need a gaming console to do stuff, other devices already pull off more than well enough? I personally thought the 360 is more than bloated enough as it is already, after all the makeovers and updates.

Hearing that there's no backwards compatibilty for physical / virtual games on either console, as well as all these rumours concerning used games and always-on shenanigans... pretty much kill all enthusiasm on my side anyway.

I'll wait for news of the E3 now - perhaps the rumours will be adressed positively and a bunch of awesome games can be seen, if so that might change my "New consoles? Meh, don't need any."-stance.

mr Handy
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2013 20:38
Quote: ""Facebook" and what not hysteria, adding that stuff into every corner"

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 4th Jun 2013 00:11
Quote: "Hearing that there's no backwards compatibilty for physical / virtual games on either console"
I believe the PS4 will be able to stream PS1 ,2 and 3 games over the internet through a cloud service like Onlive. It's not exactly backwards compatibility but it's a damn sight better than anything Microsoft's offered up so far xD

Quik
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Posted: 4th Jun 2013 00:31
But it's definitly equally as convincing as to what Xbox has... that means - not at all.



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Mobiius
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Posted: 4th Jun 2013 19:21
But since the xbox operating systems are HyperV virtual machines, I'd bet that someone will write an Xbox/360 emulator for the One. Perhaps even a PC game player based on the Windows8 kernel it's running.

This is my current project, check it out! [href]forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=204576&b=8[/href]
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mr Handy
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Posted: 4th Jun 2013 20:57
@Mobiius
PS3 and X360 deserves it much more...

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mr Handy
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Posted: 7th Jun 2013 15:47
VIA third-party ppl - Xbox Wire blog confirmed that XBox will need internet connection once a day, otherwise you won't be able to play games.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th Jun 2013 21:47
It's been confirmed that publishers have the right to nullify resale of game discs.

...No wonder that EA threw their chips in exclusively with MS. Thankfully they've finished the only games I cared about that they published.
Quik
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Posted: 7th Jun 2013 22:03
That's good though - less unjustified-unfair moneygrabbing from retailers



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mr Handy
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Posted: 7th Jun 2013 22:14 Edited at: 7th Jun 2013 22:18
Quote: "When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded."

It's easy to check: often talk with your friend how great to be terrorists, setting an explosion at mall, destroying democracy (or what usually terrorists are talking about); if FBI will not come at your place, then MS told the truth

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Mobiius
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Posted: 7th Jun 2013 22:45
I don't like the idea of not being able to buy second hand games.

This is upsetting news for me. (Even though the games I like I buy brand new anyway.) It will take away the impulse purchases when you see a cheap game for sale.

This is my current project, check it out! [href]forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=204576&b=8[/href]
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