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Geek Culture / Xbox One

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Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2013 19:43
as a company? piss everyone off - as long as it gives profit ofc... which it obviously does



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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Jun 2013 20:29 Edited at: 18th Jun 2013 20:33
Quote: "It's a bit dumb though isn't it? Which would you choose: "Make a lot of money and keep everyone happy" or "Make a crap tonne of money and piss everyone off."
"


I'd choose the former, but people are greedy and care only about making as much money as possible.

I somehow doubt the AAA developers care more about making people happy than making money, which is why it's a little ironic that so many people here want to support them by buying brand new instead of used. I can understand people wanting to support indie devs, but they generally release digitally and not in stores.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Jun 2013 23:05
Quote: "I somehow doubt the AAA developers care more about making people happy than making money"

Which is a bit odd for an entertainment industry.

Quote: "it's a little ironic that so many people here want to support them by buying brand new instead of used. I can understand people wanting to support indie devs, but they generally release digitally and not in stores."

I think people certainly care more about indies getting pirated than AAA studios.

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Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2013 23:28
of course I prefer indies, or rather want to support them more - but then, every developer deserves to get paid - provided I like the product they give me.



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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 19th Jun 2013 01:07
I guess what socialism does is indeed favorable, and I'm no economist but I'm pretty sure a socialist economy is no longer a free market economy and therefore you end up with a loss of freedom. Not at all okay in my eyes...
TheComet
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Posted: 19th Jun 2013 01:33


TheComet


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mr Handy
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Posted: 19th Jun 2013 01:39 Edited at: 19th Jun 2013 01:44
@TheComet
Just checked - it is true, not photoshop. Amazing.

Also, take a look at this:

Like a history log. In the end there shoud be "Sony buys Xbox"

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 19th Jun 2013 01:54
That is awesome
bitJericho
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Posted: 19th Jun 2013 04:51
Quote: "I somehow doubt the AAA developers care more about making people happy than making money"


I don't know if I'd go that far. Surely AAA publishers are aware of the long term consequences of alienating their customers... unless it's MS, which has a history of successfully getting away with alienating their customers lol.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:24
Mobiius
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:42
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update
It's official, it's on Microsofts website!

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Quik
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:49
that's actually quite nice - a bit late... but still - it's nice that they realise that "OH NO, NOBODY WANTS THIS... MIGHT NOT WANNA KEEP IT?"



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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:51
Now, I wonder if they're gonna fix the creepy kinect thing?D=
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:54
They already did, some time ago actually. You can completely turn Kinect off, so that it doesn't even hear you or see you. It can be completely disabled.

I still think I'm gonna get a PS4 first, though... I like the games for it more, and the fact that the hard drive is removable/upgradeable!

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:57
Ah, awesome! Well between Windows 8.1 and this, I'd say MS is a pretty decent company for listening so well.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 00:59
Definitely good news, sure you could argue it's late but at least they can still win people back.

I probably will still go for a PS4, depends on how release goes, but at least now I wouldn't be against buying an XBox One if the games attracted me.

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 01:00
Well, except their version of "Bring the Start Menu back!" just meant to slap the Windows logo on the left of the taskbar again, and make it take you back to the Start Screen...

But other than that, yeah, they do seem to listen better recently. Although, I do wonder, was this all a publicity stunt on their part, just to get super-attention, and then at the last minute, pretend to reverse their policies to garner even MORE attention, and potential sales?

...Conspiracy, I say!

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 01:02
Well you could be right. Publicity stunts happen, but I don't think it's one MS would pull off though, I think it's more likely to say they had the wrong idea by rectified it as soon as it caused an uproar.

Matty H
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 01:06
Maybe I was right after all, I said they would reverse these 'features' after the initial backlash.

Slow Programmer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 01:17
It is nice they have listened, but I suspect the damage is already done and many will not take the XB1 seriously no matter what Microsoft does at this point.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 01:22
Quote: "It is nice they have listened, but I suspect the damage is already done and many will not take the XB1 seriously no matter what Microsoft does at this point."


I feel kind of the same way. Microsoft has shown they can listen, but the damage has been done. They may at least still have a decent chunk of console marketshare, though! I'm glad they reversed their policies on these things, because now I don't hate them anymore.

Benjamin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 01:41
I can only imagine it was a publicity stunt. I don't think anyone's stupid enough to impose such restrictions on a console, particularly when other consoles don't have said restrictions.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 09:13
Just read this on slashdot, MS has removed the internet requirement stating that once activated during initial setup you no longer need the internet for the xbox ever again.


http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Quik
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 09:15
it's been posted twice already phaelax



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Matty H
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 12:11
I am still unlikely to consider the XBox One, if it was not for Playstation 4 Microsoft may not have budged on all the issues.

For me it's about what company I want to hand my money over to, Sony got it straight away, Microsoft have probably shown what the future holds for gamers and the only way to stop(slow) it is to not buy their product.

Mobiius
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 16:19
Simply not buying one companies product will not guarantee the other companies will not adopt their strategies. They'll simply adopt them knowing that they're unopposed in the marketplace, and that consumers will either have to buy their product anyway, or not buy it at all. (And knowing people, few will choose to simply not buy it. They'll buy it and whinge about it, meaning the company wins anyway.)

Given a choice between not owning, and owning an inferior product, people are greedy and will still buy the inferior product. An unfortunate fact of life.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 17:41
Quote: "I can only imagine it was a publicity stunt. I don't think anyone's stupid enough to impose such restrictions on a console, particularly when other consoles don't have said restrictions."

How could this possibly be a publicity stunt? We already knew the XBone was coming, it's one of the biggest consoles and didn't need to gather any publicity. All this has done is given a negative impression of the console; an impression that is going to linger on and hurt sales even now.

I have to wonder if this is a temporary "ceasefire", and they will activate all these "features" once the console is in people's homes.

It concerns me that they defended it so vehemently for months, it's only now that the XBone looks like being an absolute catastrophe that they listen.

Why do Microsoft act like evil dictators with a monopoly on breathable air? Do they not understand that people give them money because they WANT these consoles and games? Why are they always messing us about? Just make what we want and we will gladly pay good money for it, Christ! You make this way harder than it needs to be.

I hope it still fails, they need to be made an example of or they will keep trying this crap until they get away with it.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 19:31
Quote: "How could this possibly be a publicity stunt?"


I don't know, it just seems equally stupid that they'd actually put these restrictions in place.

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Doomster
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 19:49 Edited at: 20th Jun 2013 19:53
Who knows if Sony didn't have the exact same measures planned (always-online, used games, etc.)?

As far as I recall, those points weren't adressed at all during the PS4 presentation, but once Microsoft came out with it's self-destruction-tour, Sony was suddenly spouting out all this "We won't do this, we won't do that" statements, using the backslash to come out on top.

Maybe Sony was just wise enough, to wait for the competition to reveil their plans to tackle these issues and then, seeing how the possible customers reacted, resolved them silently, since they couldn't afford to go down the same path as Microsoft... I mean, looking at the price for the new PlayStation says rather much already.

What I'm saying - if Microsoft wouldn't have made a try to get such measurements into the console market, someone else would have done it. Perhaps not now for this generation, but sooner or later someone would have had a shot at it.

Thankfully they changed these requirements and policies before the consoles hit the market, now the PS4 at least has a potential competitor... with that said, I'm still not sold on either console at all, even after seeing all the E3 footage.

Quik
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 19:54
Quote: "Who knows if Sony didn't have the exact same measures planned (always-online, used games, etc.)?"


Sony even released a video where they say that sharing games are as easy as giving the copy to your friend...



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Doomster
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 20:56 Edited at: 20th Jun 2013 20:57
Quote: " Sony even released a video where they say that sharing games are as easy as giving the copy to your friend..."

Which came out one week ago, after Microsoft already announced their policies in public. The original presentation was a few months before that - back then they didn't say anything concrete as far as these topics were concerned, but were merely beating around the bush.

Quik
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Posted: 20th Jun 2013 21:29
Ah, ytou were only refering to that? XD



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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 00:16 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2013 00:17
I'm not understanding why people are constantly saying "the damage is already done." It makes no sense to me. Microsoft changed what everyone was complaining about several months BEFORE the console was even released. MS stated their plans for the Xbox One, people hated it, Microsoft said "okay well I guess we were stupid so we won't do any of that stupid crap."

If the console was released with these restrictions, then months down the road they changed it, then I could understand it being too late for MS to fix. But they fixed what made the console so horrible just a month after releasing it's details. I'd say Microsoft is pretty awesome for listening to the community like that. I personally raged and backlashed on every forums I could find about how much I hated Microsoft... But seeing as they actually listened to the consumers (more so just realized that their console was dead months before release) I am now happy to say I will be a proud Xbox One owner.

Quote: "I have to wonder if this is a temporary "ceasefire", and they will activate all these "features" once the console is in people's homes."

I don't believe so, microsoft announced saying the restrictions will never happen.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 00:50 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2013 00:51
I am with you Redneck. As much as I was against the Xbox One, I am glad they were able to change based on what people want, yes you could have argued it would have affected their sales, but then if people remember the 360 had bad publicity due to its red rings of death and the Wii had bad publicity due to its graphics. So because people moan isn't usually an indicator of sales. I already admitted earlier on in the thread that if the Xbox One had enough exclusives to interest me I'd probably give in. I suspect it would be the same for many other moaners out there.

I find it refreshing when companies are able to admit when they're wrong, or to admit they've made a mistake and to change things to make their fans happy. Not everybody does it and people expect perfection so much that they fail to realise that everybody else, like them, are only human. So admitting error is in itself risky. The fact people are saying, "the damage is done" is kind of a testament to that. Yet, nobody was actually hurt by their mistake.

But I can't fault them for doing what I wanted them to do. Frankly, I wasn't expecting them to do it.

Yes, I am probably going to buy a PS4 still, because it has been the console to interest me the most so far. But if the Xbox One came out with games I want I can't play on PC or PS4, I would probably pick one up.

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 00:52 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2013 00:53
Quote: "I'm not understanding why people are constantly saying "the damage is already done.""


I said that the damage was done because I feel like Microsoft might try all that stuff again in the next-generation consoles (9th? 5 or so years from now ), and a lot of people feel the same way.

I think the other thing is that the PR was just so incredibly bad that Microsoft has a LOT of making up to do. Even though it was a month or so worth of bad PR, it was exceptionally bad, and so a lot of people might just be of the opinion that the Xbox One just sucks in general, despite Micrsoft's amazing 180.

That's what they should call it now, the Xbox One-Eighty! Cant take the credit for that. Saw it on YouTube.



The Zoq2
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 00:56
Like others have said, microsoft did a very good thing reverting these features, and I personaly don't think the PR department did such a bad job. They where not the ones deciding what systems would be in place but had to deal with them which they IMO pulled off pretty well. They were honest about what was actually true.

Personaly, im still more interested in the PS4 because of the lower price, better hardware and bigger focus on games. But then again, I won't be bying any of them since I can play most of the games on my PC instead
wattywatts
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 01:06 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2013 01:06
Quote: "It can be completely disabled."

If I believed that I wouldn't have tape over my webcam.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 01:17 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2013 01:26
If MS try it on the next console, then we just don't support it. But MS probably won't try it again. If they do, it'd be no different to than if they went ahead this time round. I don't see people suddenly switching off their 360s and Windows PC, so I don't see why you would need to abstain from buying an Xbox One out of principle. Reminds me slightly of people who'll abstain from eating Nestle chocolate because of slaves pick the cocoa beans but enjoy their Cheerios in the morning. You're either supporting the business or you're not, you can't do both at the same time.


I think MS will struggle to win the support back, but I'm sure as hell not holding a grudge. I think it's silly to do so.

I don't hold anybody to a higher standard than myself and I make stupid decisions, I'd like to think I try to rectify them when I can. Of course, I think the general feeling is that MS represents something evil in the gaming industry, PC gamers have already suffered restrictions and it has reflected badly on the developers, mainly EA and Ubsioft and it is kind of a taboo.

But MS's decisions could well be the result of them sitting in a board meeting thinking, "how are we going to support the developers on this one?" and brainstormed a few ideas, probably thinking the answer they settled with wasn't such a big deal because at the end of the day, people still bought ME3 on PC, people still play AC3 on their PC and still have a whale of a time. Naturally we don't know what their motivation was, but I think it's paranoid to think that suddenly MS are bad for the market or supporting them would/could lead to a dystopia of gaming. It could well have been lack of foresight and heck there could have been something well meaning behind it.

Considering some people here were very much on the defensive for 'supporting developers' and think second hand gaming is immoral. It could well have been MS's motive. If that was the case, does it make their decision so unforgiveable now that they've changed their minds?

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 01:27
I think a lot of how Microsoft handled things is why people got very angry. The situation with fobbing off the military with an, "eh, sucks for them," as far as offering troops the ability to use the XBone offline.

I mean, he could've made it look like they were trying, but he flat out palmed it off. That's not just fobbing off customers, that's a group that most of the population has a lot of respect for. Not all - and that's a bit too political for this thread - but the military at least deserved more than what Microsoft was originally handing them.

Honestly, though, Sony haven't missed a beat this time around. They've taken advantage of every failure MS tripped themselves up with, they've had some great marketing pieces like the "How to share games on PS4 video," and they're delivering a cheaper, potentially faster product with a pretty sturdy lineup.

It'll be months after launch before I throw down the cash, as I have holidays I'm planning instead. I hope that both of them become good contenders and fun consoles, because this is the first time I'm able to afford both if they make it worth my money. I love my 360 to bits, so I really need something that proves it's a step up.

For now, the PS4 looks more promising. A lot can change, especially if MS leverage Windows 8.1 properly, and get the App Ecosystem for Windows Phone rolling along. That could help create an excellent world of interconnection that would benefit those interested in Cloud stuff.

For me personally, though. I just wanna kick back with some immersive single player. Walking Dead, Last of Us and Last Light have had this generation leaving on a high IMO. There's a lot of focus on multiplayer, but I hope that doesn't stop the push for good storytelling. I could talk forever about Walking Dead in that regard...
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 02:01
To be honest, I like Microsoft now more than I really ever have before. Them taking feedback from customers seriously is fully and in every way supported by myself. We all fall down sometimes and that includes companies, but you just have to get back up again and learn from when you fell. And Microsoft has clearly demonstrated their ability to do this with XBox One's current standing and Windows 8.1.
KeithC
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 05:42
For once I agree with Coffeegrunt. It was the flippant way they were dismissing people; including one of the head honchos saying "if they want to play offline, get a 360". I don't reward people who give me the finger. As others have said; the PS4 was and is still more attractive to me. I'll be following Bungie's new endeavor, not MS's chopping up of the HALO franchise.

-Keith

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 07:13
It definitely felt like Don Mattrick was giving the finger to anyone who disagreed with the policies there for a while.

"No internet? Get a 360". Gee, thanks Mr. Mattrick, that's real nice of you. Because I definitely want to buy another 360 that soon won't be supported by game publishers...

Like I've said several times (probably in other forum threads, I'm talking about this in a LOT of different places ), I'm still definitely going to PS4 first, mostly because of the better lineup of games, but also because Microsoft gave me the finger basically, and I kinda want to do the same to them by not giving them my money...

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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 12:42
Quote: "For once I agree with Coffeegrunt."


Oh boy, you might need to see a doctor about that!
Mobiius
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 15:24
Quote: " I kinda want to do the same to them by not giving them my money"


Quote: "I'm still definitely going to PS4 first"

based on your comments, they'll get it eventually so they still win. lol

I think people have been saying that microsoft is dead as "the internet" has absolutely no moderation! It's either "Ermergerd I lurves itz!111!11eleven!1!" Or it's "Ermergerd I hatezes itz!111!11eleven!1!"
There is generally no middle of the road approaches by "the internet"
I didn't go off them as the restrictions didn't affect me. I didn't jump on the moral high horse and fling my teddy out of the pram like half "the internet" did. I agreed it was a pretty stupid thing of them to do, but they did correct that mistake. The problem is, the "teddy flinger" half on the internet has already removed the XBox1 from their minds and will not even consider it now out of some kind of misplaced "nerd justice!" lol

If people kept an open mind, then the world would be a better place. (And the internet less amusing! lol)

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Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 15:37
Quote: "I'm not understanding why people are constantly saying "the damage is already done." "

The damage is done because they now have to undo all the negative publicity. The XBone has become such a joke that it will take a long time to revive the name. I honestly think they should rename the console: those of us who will see it as a simple name change will also be aware of the changes they've made, by changing the name now they could wipe their hands of the whole debacle.
It's much easier to explain that the console has a new name because there have been significant changes, than trying to persuade people that the console they've been ridiculing isn't the same thing as it was before.

The fact is that the XBone got a tonne of publicity at E3, changing the system after the event is like correcting a false statement the day after a Presidential debate: Millions watch the debates on TV; only a few thousand will read about it in the morning papers.

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Mobiius
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 17:25 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2013 17:26
I don't think Microsoft is a joke. That just sounds like another knee jerk Internet reaction. The number of people who are aware of the u-turn (or the whole DRM issue at all) is much much less than the number of people who will buy an box one at launch. I don't personally believe that it'll affect sales too much at all, especially since microsoft have corrected their mistake 5 months before release. That is plenty of time for "the internet" to jump onto another bandwagon and forget the DRM issue completely.

For all we know, we'll all start laughing at Nintendo pretending that they make a serious console for serious gamers.

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Quik
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 17:29
as long as nintendo keeps on making zelda games, that were not as horrible as skyward sword - I'll continue to buy nintendo consoles :3



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Mobiius
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 17:40
I haven't played a zelda game since Windwaker.... Keep meaning to get twilight princess but I remember how bad super mario sunshine was and I buy another game cube game instead!

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Quik
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 17:47
Twilight princess is actually good though - as it feels somewhat like ocarina of time



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Mobiius
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2013 17:54
Quote: "Twilight princess is actually good though - as it feels somewhat like ocarina of time"

And with those words I'll buy it tomorrow!

Love Ocarina of Time, Hate Majoras Mask, liked Windwaker.

This is my current project, check it out! [href]forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=204576&b=8[/href]
This is my website, check it out! [href]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/href]

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