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Work in Progress / -Dream-

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 30th May 2007 15:26 Edited at: 30th May 2007 15:28
Sorry for not having more of an update, but I'm busy and think this is important.

I'm looking at what people are saying for price here, what people at home are telling me, and what other games of this quality (or less) are selling for. I therefor have an important question.

The people who would be willing to pay $10 or less, you you be willing to try the demo and then decide whether it was worth buying if it cost around $15? I think that's about 7 1/2 pounds.

You see, I've been seeing that like 90% of indi games seem to sell at $20, but I don't like that price as it feels like cheating people when you could rather spend that $20 on some amazing computer game that came out a little while ago. I also don't like $10 because that's what Dumbow and Cool sold for, and I ended up being one of the only people who bought it, though I can't see why. Also, everyone I know has told me $10 is too low. I would love to release it at $10, but I have the impression that I'll actually get less people to buy it that way, and I have a feeling that most people willing to pay $10 would be willing to at least consider paying an extra $5 if the game was good enough.

Satchmo
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Posted: 30th May 2007 15:39 Edited at: 21st Aug 2007 18:56
I would pay 15 if it had more levels and a level editor.

Your about to get pwned.
Lucky 13
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Posted: 31st May 2007 10:52
This game looks interesting and if the story and cut-scenes help to make me want to keep playing it, I would probably buy it.

To answer your original questions: -

1) Probably
2) About £5.99 (roughly $12)
3) At least 3 hours. But if re-playability was high, that wouldn't really matter to me.

To answer your new question: -

As an opinion, rather than answer, if the game was about $12 (£6) then it would probably be in the right range for this type of game and the level you're marketing to. But that's just my opinion.
Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 31st May 2007 15:44
If i had money(which I might) maybe around -5$, hows that sound? Ok, i think i'd be willing for 10 to 15$. Good luck, and make it worth it.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 31st May 2007 19:05
Looking awesome The game is very stylized and slick. It really shows what DBC is capable of.

I watched the videos and it looks fun to play. This is a game I could see myself buying, so...

1) Yes
2) $10
3) 3-4 hours

I look forward to its release. Keep up the good work!


Come see the WIP!
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 14:03
Well I said before that I would pay up to £9.99 which is about $20 and I stick with that. If you want to sell it for less then that is even better! The vid looks cool as I expected!

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 17:39 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 17:43
@Lucky 13, I'm liking the idea of $12. Specifically, $12.97 (add it up).
I may go for that, but this is all speculation; I'm still making the game after all.

@Cash Curtis II, Thanks! ...Cash complimented my game!!!!

Quote: "I would pay 15 if it had more levels and a level editor."

Again, level editor is all but impossible. More levels however, is not. I agree with you there, so...(look down)

I've decided to add 1 more level, bringing it to a total of 16. This wont be a puzzle level however, it will be a story level. There will be some exploration required, and it will contain 5 keys. The other story level is the last level, which contains no keys.
Edit:so if the other 14 levels each contain 1 key, how many keys do you get?

This new level will be called, the sanctuary.

In the pic, you may notice the inside looks quite a bit larger than the outside. That is how it will appear in game.

The Sanctuary will play a big part in the story, as it will be dynamically effected by what is happening to you while you dream...


Thanks everyone for the encouraging comments and the great feedback! They really help!

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Satchmo
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 01:24 Edited at: 21st Aug 2007 18:56
I never really got the point of the "keys". Explain please.

Your about to get pwned.
Lucky 13
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 13:08
Yeah, do you have to collect the keys to advance? To unlock the last level?
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 13th Jun 2007 04:03 Edited at: 14th Jun 2007 05:18
Sorry I don't have much to show right now, I've been a bit busy with graduation and that sort of thing. Anyways, WHOOOO!!! No more high school!

About the keys, here's something of an explanation:
There is a key in each of the 14 gameplay levels, and 5 keys in the Sanctuary level. Now, to get to the next level, you just need to walk through the door. To beat the game though, you must collect the keys, the number of which is dependant on what path the story takes. You will also not be able to unlock the time and step trials unless you have the key for a level. As to why there are keys at all... that's part of the story, which I can't reveal.


I've been adding a bit to the story and layout, and now there are two possible endings. Due to how the story evolved into the game, how you reach these to conclusions is not based on a yes or no type choice, but what actions you take and when. It's really not that complicated, it just depends on your obedience and curiosity. I think it will be interesting to see how many people get to each ending first.

There are 3 different versions of the main character, which you unlock through the story. Each version reacts slightly differently to the environment, though nothing huge. Once you beat the game, you can pick which version to use in a level.

After some more testing by others, I'm thinking it will take longer than the predicted 3-4 hours to complete the main game... I'll try to have some screens of the sanctuary tomorrow.

EDIT
Scratch that, the next few days for a pic of the Sanctuary. I'm very busy right now.

Here's a pic of the updated static effect. It looks really awesome ingame.


Game King
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Posted: 16th Jun 2007 01:18
^^
It looks awesome off-game as well

I love the graphic style, and concept!

Great work!

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 17th Jun 2007 18:08
SPOOKY! Looks great; loads of atmosphere.

Nack
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Posted: 17th Jun 2007 18:44 Edited at: 17th Jun 2007 18:45
oh....wow. I luv ur style. Especially the screenshot of the giant red eye in the center. There seems to be a story behind it too, am i correct? How long have you been programming in this? looks relaly cool.

nack


Beta Level out! Check it out. =]
http://s7.invisionfree.com/NacksBunkie/
tha_rami
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Posted: 17th Jun 2007 19:12
No, I wouldn't, but if I would, I'd buy it for $10. Also, I think a 3-5 hour playtime for a puzzler would do for $10.

Satchmo
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 03:46 Edited at: 21st Aug 2007 18:56
rami's just cheap, dont listen to him, lol.

Your about to get pwned.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 30th Jun 2007 06:33
Sorry for not posting in a while, and sorry for not having much of an update. I'm pretty busy for the next week with college stuff, so I wanted to post now.

@Nack, I've been programming this for like 2 years now, if you count BlockVerse as part of the dev cycle. When I started, I wasn't that good at coding, and this has sort of been about just making myself better and better. And yeah, there's a story. I thinks it's pretty cool, but it's very strange.

Just a comparison of the static and the normal, in one of the later levels.


When I do post again, I'll most likely have finished the sanctuary level, as well as re-done a few of the not-so-good-looking backgrounds.

Kieran
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Posted: 30th Jun 2007 09:15
that looks extremely awesome Bizar Guy! keep up the good work

sorry if you dont need this info anymore, but i'll throw in my 2 cents anyway

1)Definately, Looks great
2)$15 - $20
3)2-5 hours (would probably like it to be 3 at the least)

Good luck with the rest

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 30th Jun 2007 09:25
I shall respond too

1) Yes
2) $20
3) 3 hours.


Cheers,

-naota

Blastwave man
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Posted: 30th Jun 2007 16:08
Wow, seeing this for the first time I'm really impressed by the quality of the game. This is definitely sell worthy in my opinion. The game's very styled, reminds me of...well actually I can't think of what it reminds me of. Great work.

I would buy it for $15-$20, and hope for game play ranging from 5-10 hours.

Hope your college stuff clears up soon so you can finish this up. I would like to play it.


"I wish I was a wizard, becuase then I could wave my wand and perfect code would just appear."
darkGDI
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2007 07:04
Okay, I just finished reading through the thread, and I must say I am very intrigued. The game looks amazing, especially for a DBC game.

As for your questions, here are my answers:

1) I would definately buy this game. After what I have seen, there is no way I wouldn't.
2) I would probably pay around $13-$17.
3) I would expect to clock in around 4 hours of play time.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 00:55 Edited at: 10th Jul 2007 03:16
Thanks guys for all the responses. I'll keep wanting them until I officialy set a price.

Well, I've discovered that the version of 3d canvas I upgraded to has rouble exporting .x models, so I stopped working on the Sanctuary level until I get a response from Amabalis about it (which should be pretty soon).

Anyways, I've done a lot of bug fixes and corrected a few graphical errors, as well as pretty much finished the "eye" cut scene and finished modeling a new background (that's the model where I discovered the exporting problem).

Here's the new and improved version of the "Eye" vid. Click it to watch.


And here's a shot of the new background, shown in the modeler.


Satchmo
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Posted: 10th Jul 2007 01:38 Edited at: 21st Aug 2007 18:57
It looks cool. So when do you plan to have it finished?

Your about to get pwned.
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2007 17:25
Hopefully before the end of summer, but no promises. I wont exchange quality to meet a date with this, but I will stop myself from endlessly added features, which is what I'd do if I had no idea of when to finish.

Anyways, I had no internet over the weekend, and discovered something amazing. I get so much more done without the internet. Not only did I get plenty done on Dream, but also had tons of time for other things as well.

Now that I'm back I was delighted to find out that zzz was back, and after watching the new soul hunter vid, I'm feeling a bit inadequate. He better sell it or at least set up donations, or I'll kick his @ss.

Now I need some way to make myself feel better, so I'm going to raise my standards another notch. Mostly with a more cinematic camera, more story, some improved visuals, and a new way to shake up the gameplay, because I got a few complaints that the puzzles got a bit boring if you tried to play through all of them at once.


But what did I do recently?

Well, on saturday I added a few graphical effects. The main two were a thunder effect which someone suggested a long time ago, which looks pretty awesome, though I'm using a placeholder sound where I'm making a thunder noise through my hand. I also put a glow around the character, which though not very noticeable, makes him easier to he when he's behind something, and enhances his presence on the screen.

Sunday I did a bit more. I changed the learning curve on the rising levels, so that each time you drown the speed of the water/lava is reduced by 1/10 of whatever it is currently. Some people wont want this though, so I'll have the option to turn it off. I also did a serious adjustment to the static, so that it can tell where you are in the level and manually turn on if you do a certain something. I also rebuilt part of the lava level, after realising how poorly made part of it was.

And yesterday I did the single most important thing of all. First I'll tell you I made an adjustment to the 13th level, but that's not the most important thing.
I added an undo button.
It's really quite simple. If you were to say put a block down anywhere where you can't pick it up again without moving, you'll be given the option to press spacebar and have it be like you never set the block down. If you were to turn or move though, you would instantly lose this option. And because most of the time you'll be putting blocks in places you can't immediately reach them for puzzles, the notifier is unintrusive, at the bottom left hand of the screen. You'll be limited in how many times you can use the undo per level. It doesn't stop you from making mistakes, but it reduces the penalty for making them a bit.

Oh, and today I got word from 3d canvas about my prob. I should be back with modeling soon.

Lastly, I have a very cool idea for a new level select, which I'll show and/or tell later.

No screens today,

but you'll live.

-Ben

zzz
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Posted: 17th Jul 2007 22:35
Nice, the style of this game has changed a lot since "blockman remix". I think it´s quite brave to use the kind of textures you are using, they are simple but yet you manage to compose everything just perfectly.
And that eye... I look forward to see what it´s up to.

WII number: 8220 5043 6939 7393
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 01:12 Edited at: 18th Jul 2007 01:13
Thanks zzz, I really appreciate it, especially from you. And yup, that eye is up to some serious sh*t.

I'm posting a lot sooner than I expected to be, but I was finally able to export from 3dc, and got the urge to post a vid. This is a vid of the second level. Of all the levels in the game, it is the smallest and the most dull. But it's very simple, and along with the first level, teaches the most basics of the basics. The vid says what it features, but the main thing is the undo feature. It will be limited in game, and there will be an option to turn it off, but I'm sure you can see how useful it is.

VID LINK, CLICK HERE


I'm planning another puzzle level, which would be set up like two islands and you'd have to bridge them. It's an idea I've wanted to do for a long time, but we'll see. It all depends on how fast everything else goes.

In the vid, you could see the current level select. It's very functional, but boring and makes the game look smaller than it is. I'm going to replace it with a spiral staircase than the character runs up and down, with a door on each landing. There will of course be 19 landings, even though I suspect there will only be 16 or 17 levels. In the door you'll see the level, and a door will be closed if the level is locked. The level info will be displayed across from the door. It will look amazing, and will use some interesting tricks. I'll start working on it once all the levels are finished, which may be 2 or 3 if I do the islands puzzle.

Blastwave man
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 05:16
Looks incredible I really like the style and game play, and I'm glad you put in an undo feature. Though i must admit you should have a limit to the undo's, like 4 a level, or maybe even 50 for the entire game. Would make it harder. Then if you run out and want some back, you replay the levels you used undo's in and try it without them to earn them back. Just an idea

Can't wait to see the level select, sounds really trippy


"I wish I was a wizard, becuase then I could wave my wand and perfect code would just appear."
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 11:17
Looks and sounds awesome but I'm sure you are bored hearing that! Lol! This project really makes me wish I still had a PC so I could be making games! Stupid breaking machine!!!

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 20:49 Edited at: 18th Jul 2007 21:07
@ Blastwave man, I think it will be more like 2 undos each time you play a level, but yeah, they'll definitely be limited. Now that you've mentioned it, I may make the number of undos change per level.

@ TEH_CODERER, I'd rather hear it's awesome than the opposite. Sorry to here your pc is broken. Whoa! Just clicked your sig. I didn't realize you'd restarted!! I'm going to check that out as soon as I finish posting. Edit: I just finished. I really hope you get your pc back (like fix or replace). I hope you didn't lose your library. That would be absolutely awful.

Anyways,
SCREENSHOT BONANZA!!!!!!!!

#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


Each of these screenshots have something in common (aside from the obvious), that I'll unveil in the next update. It's the greatest thing ever, and I'll say that it's something that I've wanted to do since I finished Blockverse.

PICK YOUR FAVORITE!
I'd like people to vote on which of these screens they like the best. I'll put the top 2 in the gallery, and maybe somewhere else.

zzz
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 21:04
The 2nd picture is my favourite.

WII number: 8220 5043 6939 7393
Game King
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 21:09
Yeah no doubt, nice screenshots. Looks great, can't wait to play

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 21:11 Edited at: 11th Feb 2008 04:33
Reposting this for the new page. So far 1 vote for screen #2.

SCREENSHOT BONANZA!!!!!!!!

#1


#2
http://www.bizargames.com/Portals/14/Gallery/1092/screenP2.jpg

#3


#4


#5


#6


Each of these screenshots have something in common (aside from the obvious), that I'll unveil in the next update. It's the greatest thing ever(), and I'll say that it's something that I've wanted to do since I finished Blockverse.

PICK YOUR FAVORITE!
I'd like people to vote on which of these screens they like the best. I'll put the top 2 in the gallery, and maybe somewhere else.


BlockVerse-> Old School Beta Demo-> Dream-> Old School-> Guitar Platformer
Game King
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 21:18
I like screen numba 3

Inspire
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 22:24
I like #3, also.

Blastwave man
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 00:49 Edited at: 19th Jul 2007 00:50
I like number 5 because it looks very hot! It has a cool red glow . I wonder what you did?

oh, and do you plan to have T-Shirts? lol..seriously, I would so wear a T-shirt with the main guy and the red eye on it.


"I wish I was a wizard, becuase then I could wave my wand and perfect code would just appear."
tha_rami
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 02:28
Only just now noticed that this again is DBC. Amazing, it seems most of the completing and quality games are DBC. I'm wondering if it's just due to the people who use it or that there is some hidden 'I'll prove them DBC is as good as DBP'-mentality.

I really don't know, just need to compliment you. It looks terrific and I'm eager to play it (or even a demo)!

eek
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 06:27
It's takin shape.
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 14:09
I love 3 and 6. 3 just about wins but it is close.

Thanks for the sympathy! lol! I'd restarted a while back just before my pc died but I get to use my parent's every now and then so I might try and continue. However, at the moment I really want to try and get some casual games made to earn money for a new pc.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 16:18 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2007 16:20
Quote: "oh, and do you plan to have T-Shirts? lol..seriously, I would so wear a T-shirt with the main guy and the red eye on it."

I actually was thinking about t-shirts, because I would so wear a shirt like that too. Right now I'm working on a Desktop, but I do think I'll make a t-shirt or two as well.

Quote: "Only just now noticed that this again is DBC. Amazing, it seems most of the completing and quality games are DBC. I'm wondering if it's just due to the people who use it or that there is some hidden 'I'll prove them DBC is as good as DBP'-mentality."

That's almost my mentality. I'm more determined to prove I can do better than most in DBC, and that I'm skilled enough to overcome any limitations. You see, I have DBpro as well, and just can't bring myself to switch until I've finished this game. Zzz has said he has DBpro as well.
edit: it's more about personal achievement than proving the product.

Quote: "It's takin shape. "

Thank you.

Quote: "Thanks for the sympathy! lol! I'd restarted a while back just before my pc died but I get to use my parent's every now and then so I might try and continue. However, at the moment I really want to try and get some casual games made to earn money for a new pc."

I hope things work out in the end. I can imagine what it would be like if I lost my computer.


Thanks people for the votes! However, I still need a few more. Here's the standings so far.
#2-1
#3-3
#5-1


I'm putting together the next update. It's taking a little while, but I hope to have it up soon.

Zeus
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 16:24
Part 2D and mainly 3d? You gotta love it.

Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 16:46
I like #6.

dab
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 20:36
my favs are between 2&3.

1) I really couldn't see myself wanting to play this game. Don't get me wrong. its is amazing, and beautiful, but just not the type of game I'd play.
2) I'd say with the quality and the time you spent to perfect the engine, I'd go $15
3) 5-6hours would seem reasonable.
Alfa x
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 00:30 Edited at: 24th Jul 2007 00:31
Hi Bizar:

my favorites are 3 & 4.

1) Maybe, depending on the features, demo and videos.
2) I think 12$ or 13$ is OK if you wanna sell, because of
fully commercial games.
3) I would like 12-15 hours of gameplay first time. I think you
need to slowly discover the plot, So you can't shut down your PC
until you finish, but the end is not reached so quickly .
"I don't want a game i finish in one day"(5 hours of play time).


Your work is excellent. ANd I see that you are greatly improving
Dream since n'vidia competition. Can't wait until you finish it, to
play your work.
Blastwave man
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Posted: 25th Jul 2007 01:18
http://www.zazzle.com/

i used this sight to make some wall size posters and it was pretty good price in my opinion. You can do t-shirts and all kinds of stuff as well.


"I wish I was a wizard, becuase then I could wave my wand and perfect code would just appear."
Sixty Squares
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Posted: 25th Jul 2007 02:21
Woah the eye in #2 is pretty creepy! I'd vote for that one

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 29th Jul 2007 02:42
Alright, here are the final results. Thanks everyone for voting!

#2-3
#3-4
#5-1
#6-1


#2 and #3 will get posted in the gallery, and somewhere else... #3 first because it won first place.

@ dabip and Alfa x, since you both voted twice, I only counted your fist votes. Hope you don't mind.

@ Blastwave man, that site actually looks way better than the ones I've been looking at. I'll take a closer look at it.

Quote: "Part 2D and mainly 3d? You gotta love it."

Umm, sorry, but what are you talking about?? Dream is entirely 3D. Do you mean the levels where you only move on the x and y axis? That's only 2d movement. The level is still 3D restricted to 2 dimensional movement. Or are you talking about the menus and such...


I'm putting together the update now, which is constantly expanding... I'm also drawing for the TGC Heroes team, as well as working out the characters of Adventure 19. Getting them to look just right is quite hard.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 13th Aug 2007 05:58
Really sorry about not having an update yet. I swear I'm still working on this, and there's a bunch of important things I'm going to cover in it. I'll try hard to post it before the 18th. If I don't, I'll be posting it from college.

On a brighter note, both the winning screenshots are still on the tgc main page, which is awesome.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 13th Aug 2007 06:07
Looking pretty amazing bizar, I wish I could make media like that. But you gotta work with what you can do.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 00:07 Edited at: 15th Aug 2007 00:44
Alright, get ready for the biggest update in gaming history since the polygon!!

Well, no, not really.


Anyways, UPDATE!

What is this big thing I keep mentioning? Well, it’s the camera. Do people remember when I went on an on about making a smart camera? No? Well I did. The idea of the smart camera was a camera system smart enough to analyze the area and current situation and set the camera up based off it. The Fabel Nux demo used the early version of this system, with mixed results. It was slow, and still picked so strange angles. In the two levels in that demo though, the camera worked fairly well, and was able to determine different areas of the levels and size and height. It didn’t work in any other levels though. In a fit of frustration, I got rid of the smart camera and used it’s roots. At the core was a system that controlled the camera based off of 6 variables, which could be entirely edited before hand. With this I set up each levels camera manually, and added a few real time commands for tricky situations.

Now, I have taken a first step to re-creating the smart camera, and a form that will actually work. While I can’t do much with it in Dream, in newer projects it will be incredible. Instead of trying to make the camera itself pick the camera type, I set up parameters and the camera takes its cue from that, putting together the best fit camera for the area. What I mean to say is that I fill out a number of variables like a form, and the program makes a completely adjustable real-time camera based off of them.

Right now the only functions this serves is to add a independent swinging motion based off of where the character is, but I’m going to add a controllable camera lag that can adjust based off of position and type. The possibilities for the system are nearly endless because of how it's set up... I can't wait to try it with my mouse movement system (another project)...

If you’ve watched the vids, you probably already had some idea of how complex the cameras in Dream were. Now there’s almost 3 times as much complexity, with the ability to add more quickly. The difficulty is keeping up the frame rate with so many calculations going on for the cameras, so I’ve been working on optimizing the new camera. So far I’ve gotten a lot done.

Edit: The camera code isn't technically impressive, it's more the idea and possibilities it offers that I think are impressive.

The camera isn’t all that I’ve worked on though. I’ve smoothed the running animation a bit, fixed a massive error with the cut-scenes, and toyed around with the Eye cut scene some more. That’s not all I’ve done, but I’m having trouble remembering right now (I’ve been packing mostly recently). Something I think is really cool is that underneath the music there are whispers that fade in and out. If you listen closely, one of them has a secret message (seriously).

Here is a Wallpaper I made for Dream (I use it myself).
http://www.bizargames.com/Portals/14/Gallery/1092/backdrop.JPG


And finally, here it is... I bet you didn’t expect to hear this for a while (I honestly didn’t), but… DEMO!!!

Yes, I’m going to release a beta demo on the 15th (Where I live, mind you). It will feature both the levels that won the picture contest, as well as the Credit and Eye scenes. It should give a good idea of how Dream plays, and how the camera works. I’m going to want lots of feedback on it, so I’ll probably make a thread in geek culture pointing to it, unless someone thinks that’s a bad idea.

Here are some screens from the demo...



It's easy to walk through lava when the health bar is disabled...

Blastwave man
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 12th Sep 2006
Location: ...don\'t look behind you.
Posted: 15th Aug 2007 00:30
my new wallpaper

can't wait for the demo, been waiting for this one for a while now with great anticipation

good luck


Current Project: Blastwave Saga
Completion: 33% (give or take a percentage)
Game King
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 25th Mar 2007
Location: Naples, FL
Posted: 15th Aug 2007 01:03
Quote: "can't wait for the demo, been waiting for this one for a while now with great anticipation

good luck"


Just what I was about to say

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